Brake options

[MaddMatt]

I suspect that Hawk Blues may be the way to go ... but I may try out some PFC's

I'd stay away from Blues. They are notoriously hard on rotors and the dust is *casustic* on the wheels! I'd try their HT-10 or one of the DTC compounds (60?). I don't think PFC makes anything for us, BTW. I'd love to get some 01s, though.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by BigMoney8481

that link is for the S2000 fronts and rears. Did we figure out if these are the same pads for the Si's yet?

The RSX Type-S and S-2000 share the same pads ...


Moose

[Moose]

Originally Posted by MaddMatt

I'd stay away from Blues. They are notoriously hard on rotors and the dust is *casustic* on the wheels! I'd try their HT-10 or one of the DTC compounds (60?). I don't think PFC makes anything for us, BTW. I'd love to get some 01s, though.

Oh I know all about the Blues ...I have been running on them for over 10 years ... I wax my rims and fenders well, use dedicated race rim, and wash the car carefully after every event I uses Blues ... Actually once they are up to temp they are VERY rotor freindly ...but cool or cold ..YES they eat the rotors.

With that being said I have ordered a set of Hawk DTC 60's ... I want to give this all new compound a try ... According to a bud of mine who tracks his Stook ... (same pad, similar caliper, similar weight car) they work exceptionally well.




Moose

[Zaret]

After over heating the front brakes at my last track event I have been looking into various front brake upgrades. The goal is to not have to swap pads and rotors for the track and get a little more front brake bias as my civic has too much rear bias for my driving style.

-Cooling ducts: Has anyone tried this before? The space looks a little tight on the passenger side for routing a duct. What about the intake duct? I am a little concerned the intake and/or ducting my not last long for a daily driver.

-Acura TL Type-s: Are the 12.3 rotor and Brembo caliper a direct bolt on to a 2006+ Si?

-Calipers: I am looking for calipers with the correct piston size that could fit a larger rotor. Radial mount is much easier to make a bracket for. I am considering only OEM or Brembo and Stoptech if I found the right ones. I don't want to spend $3k+ on a big brake kit. I also prefer to be able to get parts from a local auto shop rather than need to special order replacement/repair parts. Other than good pads that is.
1) Acura RL - Anyone know the caliper piston diameters? Downside is it looks like only EBC (no good for the track) and Carbotech make pads for the 05+ RL.
2) Saleen has a 40/36mm (2274 mm^2) Brembo radial mount that would be easy to make a bracket for but is rare and if found, likely pricey.
3) The other caliper I found specs for is the Porsche 944 S2 (non M030 sport suspension whatever that is) and 87+ 944 turbo. They are also 40/36mm Brembo but am unsure if they are radial mount.

-Possible larger 5x114.3 rotors are 02-05 STI 12.7" x 30mm, 06-07 IS350 13.15" x 30mm, 05 G35 sedan 12.6" x 28mm, Mazdaspeed6 12.6" x 25.4mm and 08 STI 12.8 x 30mm. A larger diameter and/or 28-30 mm thickness would also add more thermal capacity and surface area to dissapate heat.

-Adapter bracket for the stock caliper to fit a larger rotor: I saw the Powerslot Plus kit but it uses a 14" rotor which would more than likely be way too much front bias without doing something to rear. The rear is more than ample so I see no need to mess with it. I sketched a bracket for a 12.5" ish rotor and can't come up with a good bracket design. Anyone else tried?

[csxian]

Originally Posted by Moose

The RSX Type-S and S-2000 share the same pads ...


Moose

What about Si or EX?

[Moose]

Originally Posted by csxian

What about Si or EX?

S2000 and RSX Share the same front Pads with the Si and the Same rear Pads (Disk) with the Si and EX

Moose

[Moose]

Front Pads - Dual Duty - Well the nearest I have found so far is the Project Mu HC+ (Titan Kai) which have a temperature range of 0～800 C (0-1472 F ) They work reasonalbly well with my very Aggressive driving style ...EXCEPT at one track that is notoriously hard on brakes, where they went a bit soft.

What fluid are you running ? ... I cooked my ATE ... but my Pentosin has been holding up much better (Similar to RBF600) to the track days. I will be switching over to SRF I think.

Both Sides have some clearance issues for the 3" brake duct ... Left side has the Intake resonator, which is easily removed, and the Right side has the washer fluid bottle, not so easily removed, however there is some space between the under tray to squeeze it thru, beside teh washer bottle. The Fog Lights will have to be sacrificed for an inlet (Allready done), and the only real issue will be running the ducts to custom backing plates on the knuckles. That is next on my to do list.

I have heard that the TL-S brakes will work, but I have not been able to track down if it is a bolt-up type application ... I would personaly only use Honda/Acura applications caliper / rotors, just because of potential hub-bore clearance issues ... that being said there is allways a way around the issues.

In terms of potential OTS Front Big Brake kits ... Brian Hasty at Fast Brakes has a 13" Willwood caliper option with a full floating 2 peice rotor that should be close to OE specs in terms of maintaining the F/R bias. Rotora's 4 piston Caliper upgrade also is close to OE in spec using the OE rotor, with a bit more front bias. His stuff is well designed and engineered and is resonably priced.


The biggest problem with the Si's Front brakes is the Weight of the car ... I am not convinced that there is a dual duty pad that will work well enough at the track ... I could get away with a Dual Duty pad on my 93 Civic Hatch ... mainly because it was light at ~2100#.

Changing pads and rotors at the track is fast ... about 15 minutes a side, and I have the rims off anyways to change over to the track setup anways.



Moose

Originally Posted by Zaret

After over heating the front brakes at my last track event I have been looking into various front brake upgrades. The goal is to not have to swap pads and rotors for the track and get a little more front brake bias as my civic has too much rear bias for my driving style.

-Cooling ducts: Has anyone tried this before? The space looks a little tight on the passenger side for routing a duct. What about the intake duct? I am a little concerned the intake and/or ducting my not last long for a daily driver.

-Acura TL Type-s: Are the 12.3 rotor and Brembo caliper a direct bolt on to a 2006+ Si?

-Calipers: I am looking for calipers with the correct piston size that could fit a larger rotor. Radial mount is much easier to make a bracket for. I am considering only OEM or Brembo and Stoptech if I found the right ones. I don't want to spend $3k+ on a big brake kit. I also prefer to be able to get parts from a local auto shop rather than need to special order replacement/repair parts. Other than good pads that is.
1) Acura RL - Anyone know the caliper piston diameters? Downside is it looks like only EBC (no good for the track) and Carbotech make pads for the 05+ RL.
2) Saleen has a 40/36mm (2274 mm^2) Brembo radial mount that would be easy to make a bracket for but is rare and if found, likely pricey.
3) The other caliper I found specs for is the Porsche 944 S2 (non M030 sport suspension whatever that is) and 87+ 944 turbo. They are also 40/36mm Brembo but am unsure if they are radial mount.

-Possible larger 5x114.3 rotors are 02-05 STI 12.7" x 30mm, 06-07 IS350 13.15" x 30mm, 05 G35 sedan 12.6" x 28mm, Mazdaspeed6 12.6" x 25.4mm and 08 STI 12.8 x 30mm. A larger diameter and/or 28-30 mm thickness would also add more thermal capacity and surface area to dissapate heat.

-Adapter bracket for the stock caliper to fit a larger rotor: I saw the Powerslot Plus kit but it uses a 14" rotor which would more than likely be way too much front bias without doing something to rear. The rear is more than ample so I see no need to mess with it. I sketched a bracket for a 12.5" ish rotor and can't come up with a good bracket design. Anyone else tried?

[Live by SI]

In a quest to find a dual duty pad up to the rigors of tracking a 3000+ pound civic, fully loaded…

I’m going to give these a try on some advice from S.T.I. owners.

Endless USA

I have them and they will be going on this weekend.

I will be at Shannonville before the month is out and will report back on how they faired on the road and track.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Live by SI

In a quest to find a dual duty pad up to the rigors of tracking a 3000+ pound civic, fully loaded…

I’m going to give these a try on some advice from S.T.I. owners.

Endless USA

I have them and they will be going on this weekend.

I will be at Shannonville before the month is out and will report back on how they faired on the road and track.

Hmm Similar Specs to the Project Mu Titan Kai's (HC+)

I would be interested in you thoughts

Moose

[DRIVEN1]

First off I have to say that Moose you are the man for doing all of this. I am just getting back in Hondas and I will be taking my car to Sebring next month. Not sure if you are familiar with that track. I am not looking for a street/track pad, if it is good for the street it is not going to last in hour long lapping sessons. I want to get some pads that will be track only pads. I was going to go with the Hawk Blues but I am getting worried about the dust eating the wheels and paint. Because the track rotors and pads will go on Friday morning and be on there until Monday morning before I take them off and then wash the car. Is that dust going to eat everything up in 3-4 days? For now I will be running the nice mugen street wheels and tires and would rather not destroy them. Once I have a couple events under my belt in this car I will probably get some track wheels and tires and then will not care as much. So can I go for the blues or try something else? What about the cobalt pads? I see that they are being used by some Hondas racing. Do you know what pad would be the one to use or are they just as bad in terms of caustic? Thanks for your help, Mike.

[Moose]

The Blues are my old standard ... BUT they may have a better option now ...HAWK has a brand new compound, the DTC-60 that should work exceptionally well. I have used them on a S2000 (has the same pads, and the car weighs roughly the same) at a lapping day and they were fabulous ..I have a set on order currently

As far as the dust ... to protect both the paint and the rims I have allways done the following ... used a GOOD quality carnuba Wax and put down 2-3 solid layers on the fenders and area's arround the wheel opeinigs, and on the rims.

Hawk blue dust only gets corrosive when it is wet, and left wet, sitting on a surface, the trick is to not get it wet and let it sit ... wash and rinse well after your track days .

The rims take the most abuse from a brake dust perspective, as a result I allways reccomend a separate set of rims that you do not care about cosmetically ...

I have never used Cobalts, however I have heard good things about them.

I have only ever used Hawk, Grandsport, ProjectMU, PBR/Axis and Porterfield. I allways seem to come back to Hawk for track only pads ...they just work.


Moose

Originally Posted by DRIVEN1

First off I have to say that Moose you are the man for doing all of this. I am just getting back in Hondas and I will be taking my car to Sebring next month. Not sure if you are familiar with that track. I am not looking for a street/track pad, if it is good for the street it is not going to last in hour long lapping sessons. I want to get some pads that will be track only pads. I was going to go with the Hawk Blues but I am getting worried about the dust eating the wheels and paint. Because the track rotors and pads will go on Friday morning and be on there until Monday morning before I take them off and then wash the car. Is that dust going to eat everything up in 3-4 days? For now I will be running the nice mugen street wheels and tires and would rather not destroy them. Once I have a couple events under my belt in this car I will probably get some track wheels and tires and then will not care as much. So can I go for the blues or try something else? What about the cobalt pads? I see that they are being used by some Hondas racing. Do you know what pad would be the one to use or are they just as bad in terms of caustic? Thanks for your help, Mike.

[DRIVEN1]

Originally Posted by Moose

The Blues are my old standard ... BUT they may have a better option now ...HAWK has a brand new compound, the DTC-60 that should work exceptionally well. I have used them on a S2000 (has the same pads, and the car weighs roughly the same) at a lapping day and they were fabulous ..I have a set on order currently

As far as the dust ... to protect both the paint and the rims I have allways done the following ... used a GOOD quality carnuba Wax and put down 2-3 solid layers on the fenders and area's arround the wheel opeinigs, and on the rims.

Hawk blue dust only gets corrosive when it is wet, and left wet, sitting on a surface, the trick is to not get it wet and let it sit ... wash and rinse well after your track days .

The rims take the most abuse from a brake dust perspective, as a result I allways reccomend a separate set of rims that you do not care about cosmetically ...

I have never used Cobalts, however I have heard good things about them.

I have only ever used Hawk, Grandsport, ProjectMU, PBR/Axis and Porterfield. I allways seem to come back to Hawk for track only pads ...they just work.


Moose

Brakes Products for Honda Civic Sedan Si 2008

I saw the dtc60 on the tirerack site and wondered about them, but they did not list a rear fitment yet. What makes them better than the blues? I assume that it is as corrosive as the blues? Where are you ordering them from that has the rear fitment?
Okay so as long as I don't get the brake dust wet until I am cleaning them I should be okay. The only problem is that in FLorida for the next 3 months it will rain almost every afternoon. I will just put a butt loads of wax on like you recommend and see what happens. I would really like to get some track wheels before I go out there. I might just do that and put some good street rubber on them first. I was thinking about doing a 17x8 with 235/40 on them. Thinking that would be the choice based on what I have read. Thanks for your help, and I am sure that I will have some more questions as I get closer.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by DRIVEN1

Brakes Products for Honda Civic Sedan Si 2008

I saw the dtc60 on the tirerack site and wondered about them, but they did not list a rear fitment yet. What makes them better than the blues? I assume that it is as corrosive as the blues? Where are you ordering them from that has the rear fitment?
Okay so as long as I don't get the brake dust wet until I am cleaning them I should be okay. The only problem is that in FLorida for the next 3 months it will rain almost every afternoon. I will just put a butt loads of wax on like you recommend and see what happens. I would really like to get some track wheels before I go out there. I might just do that and put some good street rubber on them first. I was thinking about doing a 17x8 with 235/40 on them. Thinking that would be the choice based on what I have read. Thanks for your help, and I am sure that I will have some more questions as I get closer.

You do not need DTC-60 on the rear ...they will probably not generate enough heat/grip back there ... HP+, DTC30, or similar pad should work well out back ... remmember that 60+% of the braking is done by the front brakes ... so concentrate on the front brakes first

I run 235-40-17 Toyo RA1's on 17x8 ET 40 rims (-3 camber) with NO issues ...

Street tires and lapping ... You may trash then in one day particularily if you do not have enough front camber and they are full tread depth (build to much heat) ... trust me ... R-comps are cheaper in the long run

Moose

[jrotax101]

Moose - thanks for your replies in my email, good luck this weekend!

With regards to running DTC-60 up front and HP+ rear..

Will the different pad compounds not throw off the brake bias cos of the stupid BC?

If not, that makes my life a lot easier.. only swapping two rotors/4 pads instead of the whole shabang.

[DRIVEN1]

Originally Posted by Moose

You do not need DTC-60 on the rear ...they will probably not generate enough heat/grip back there ... HP+, DTC30, or similar pad should work well out back ... remmember that 60+% of the braking is done by the front brakes ... so concentrate on the front brakes first

I run 235-40-17 Toyo RA1's on 17x8 ET 40 rims (-3 camber) with NO issues ...

Street tires and lapping ... You may trash then in one day particularily if you do not have enough front camber and they are full tread depth (build to much heat) ... trust me ... R-comps are cheaper in the long run

Moose

Okay so I will try the DTC-60 on the front and what about the hawk black for the rear? The blacks start at 100 degree. I do not see the DTC30 on the tirerack site. Did not think about the rears not getting hot enough compared to the front.Where do you get your pads from?

Just ordered my stuff to do the camber. So I was right on the tire size and wheels. What do you run in the rear for camber? -1.5? Do you keep these settings for the street of do you get a new alignment after track days?
So you like the toyo's, who do you get them thru? Do you shave and heat cycle them? Are you doing mostly autocross or open track. Because I will be doing only open track events so not sure if that would still be your choice of tire. Keep the good info coming, do you ever do any events down south?

[DRIVEN1]

If not, that makes my life a lot easier.. only swapping two rotors/4 pads instead of the whole shabang.[/quote]

Did not think about that, I was just planning on changing all 4 corners for each event. But I guess if you ran the hp+ in the rear you could use them on the street. But I am wondering if the vibration would end up being to bad and it would just be better to swap all 4 corners.
By the way love your track video and it is what gets me by until I can get my own supercharger.

[jrotax101]

i have no vibration from the HP+ in the rear, no deposits also.. only my fronts deposited with the HP+ on the track in the video.. so i'm researching the same thing as you at the moment. I just have to save up some money for new rims and r-comps + brake stuff.

[jrotax101]

Originally Posted by DRIVEN1

Just ordered my stuff to do the camber. So I was right on the tire size and wheels. What do you run in the rear for camber? -1.5? Do you keep these settings for the street of do you get a new alignment after track days?
So you like the toyo's, who do you get them thru? Do you shave and heat cycle them? Are you doing mostly autocross or open track.

Moose gets his tires from the race team he works for, or gets new, i believe. So they will be heat cycled

Also, as far as i know, moose is a track guy and its all HPDE/open track days.

He said in the email to me he runs -3 on all 4 wheels

[DRIVEN1]

Originally Posted by jrotax101

i have no vibration from the HP+ in the rear, no deposits also.. only my fronts deposited with the HP+ on the track in the video.. so i'm researching the same thing as you at the moment. I just have to save up some money for new rims and r-comps + brake stuff.

So are you currently running the hp+ on the track and street with the same rotors? I hear you about saving some money for rims and tires and brake stuff. At least you already have the supercharger, that is still on my list to do. But with my past experiances on the track I think the brakes are more important the increased power. Had total failure with an Audi S4 on stock brakes at the track and never want to do that again.

[DRIVEN1]

[quote=jrotax101;3223572]Moose gets his tires from the race team he works for, or gets new, i believe. So they will be heat cycled

Also, as far as i know, moose is a track guy and its all HPDE/open track days.

He said in the email to me he runs -3 on all 4 wheels


I wonder what the -3 on all 4 does to the tires.