Brake options

[southerndragoncivic]

Originally Posted by Moose

Ksport does .. no parking brake though ...

Ksport USA - Performance Suspension


Moose

For $2100 you'd think they'd include compatibility for the parking brake...

[Moose]

Originally Posted by southerndragoncivic

For $2100 you'd think they'd include compatibility for the parking brake...

Cannot be done with multi-piston calipers when used with a conventional cable based parking brake.
There is no way to use a single mechanical cable pull to actuate all the pistons.

A conventional OE rear caliper uses a extending/rotating piston that is actuated mechanically by the e-brake cable attached to the lever on the back of the piston. As you pull the cable, it pulls the lever, causes the piston to rotate AND move out, pressing the pads against the rotor.

Cars that have a multi-piston rear caliper use either a hydrolic line-lock type arrangement or more typically use a dedicated mechanical parking brake system, completely separate from the primary braking system (separate rotor / caliper or drum/pad)

Moose

[PFCCarvajal]

so pretty much, should I get pads and rotors? if i do should i do front and back? or am I good with just front rotors, or just front pads or same for rear? HELP!?!?!?! i wanna put powerslot rotors on the front and maybe just buy new OEM rotors for the rear, but IDK that's why I came to the Si brake guru

[Moose]

Originally Posted by PFCCarvajal

so pretty much, should I get pads and rotors? if i do should i do front and back? or am I good with just front rotors, or just front pads or same for rear? HELP!?!?!?! i wanna put powerslot rotors on the front and maybe just buy new OEM rotors for the rear, but IDK that's why I came to the Si brake guru

I am assuming this is for a street/mild track application ?

Pads:
I generally reccomend matching street compounds front and rear ... you can "get away" with mismatched sets but why bother when the rears are well under $50 a set for PBR/AXIS Ultimates ...

Rotors:
The OE rotors are fine, if they have enough meat then they can just be resurfaced, or if you wish you can replace them with a quality aftermarket rotor like Brembo.

Slotted:
Not nessesary, and expensive for no real perfomance gain


I just ordered my "winter" setup ... OE rotors, PBR Ultimates, Front and Rear, and Pentosin Race fluid.

My Summer Track setup will be Front Brembo OE blanks, Project Mu Titan Kai Fronts and B-Force rears


Moose

[southerndragoncivic]

Originally Posted by Moose

Cannot be done with multi-piston calipers when used with a conventional cable based parking brake.
There is no way to use a single mechanical cable pull to actuate all the pistons.

A conventional OE rear caliper uses a extending/rotating piston that is actuated mechanically by the e-brake cable attached to the lever on the back of the piston. As you pull the cable, it pulls the lever, causes the piston to rotate AND move out, pressing the pads against the rotor.

Cars that have a multi-piston rear caliper use either a hydrolic line-lock type arrangement or more typically use a dedicated mechanical parking brake system, completely separate from the primary braking system (separate rotor / caliper or drum/pad)

Moose

Out of curiosity, how do you restore the functionality of a parking brake if you can't use the OEM system?

[Moose]

Originally Posted by southerndragoncivic

Out of curiosity, how do you restore the functionality of a parking brake if you can't use the OEM system?

You can't ... not without some serious re-engineering

You have to either ...

-Find somewhere to add a 3rd rotor/caliper or drum/pad that it mechanically actuated. In some trucks with BIG brakes they build a drum brake INTO the inside of the Brake rotor top-hat.

-In the case of some high-end RWD cars (Ferrari/Lambo etc), they mount a 3rd or 4th rotor/caliper on to one of the drive-shafts/Axels.

-Use a hydralic line lock to hold ALL or a pair of the pistons against the rotors ... but this option is not to good at it puts a lot of stress on the system and may cause leaks / failure down the line.

Moose

[PFCCarvajal]

so really, being in North Texas we never see super extreme winter conditions other than cold, the coldest being...i'd say a few degrees below freezing is the record, would you suggest keeping a set of say "winter pads" or would the same set be good all year round? I know now I'm going to just get the OE rotors resurfaced and go with a more aggressive brake pad, it's a daily driver so I don't want anything with too much bite in it, but I do have a tendency to drive a bit aggressively every now and then but who on this board doesn't


oh and also, the full HFP brake kit, (rotors and pads), worth the money?

[J-StarR]

Originally Posted by Moose

I am assuming this is for a street/mild track application ?

Pads:
I generally reccomend matching street compounds front and rear ... you can "get away" with mismatched sets but why bother when the rears are well under $50 a set for PBR/AXIS Ultimates ...

Rotors:
The OE rotors are fine, if they have enough meat then they can just be resurfaced, or if you wish you can replace them with a quality aftermarket rotor like Brembo.

Slotted:
Not nessesary, and expensive for no real perfomance gain


I just ordered my "winter" setup ... OE rotors, PBR Ultimates, Front and Rear, and Pentosin Race fluid.

My Summer Track setup will be Front Brembo OE blanks, Project Mu Titan Kai Fronts and B-Force rears


Moose

Where do you get your Brembo blanks from?

[Moose]

Originally Posted by PFCCarvajal

so really, being in North Texas we never see super extreme winter conditions other than cold, the coldest being...i'd say a few degrees below freezing is the record, would you suggest keeping a set of say "winter pads" or would the same set be good all year round? I know now I'm going to just get the OE rotors resurfaced and go with a more aggressive brake pad, it's a daily driver so I don't want anything with too much bite in it, but I do have a tendency to drive a bit aggressively every now and then but who on this board doesn't


oh and also, the full HFP brake kit, (rotors and pads), worth the money?

The PBR/AXIS Ultimates should work just fine ... They "May" squeek a bit when it is very cold but that is it.

HPF Kit ..WAY overpriced for what you are getting, and you can build similar or better performance with better pads alone.

Moose

[Moose]

Originally Posted by J-StarR

Where do you get your Brembo blanks from?

There is local Toronto Suppilers ...but I have not found a relaible, fair priced one yet

So I use Trac Racing ... "Carl" is the guy to talk to

http://www.tracracing.com

Outside of Montreal,QC ... only paying one tax offsets the shipping for me.

Moose

[videogmike]

so moose, do you do many hpde events? are the stock pads really that awful if i'm going to be hitting up a road course? the car only has 12k miles on it...i have trouble justifying getting pads now, rather than going and beating the piss out of it at the track and then upgrading pads.

if you think i should get new pads, i was looking at the carbotech xp6 they look to be streetable and certainly good enough for a track day on the stock all season tires. for some reason carbotech's site seems to be down the last few days, if i recall though the temp range for the xp6 is 100-1000...is 100 too hot for dd? i think i could probably get in the habit of heating them up a little bit every time i first get in the car if you think that's actually necessary?

thoughts?

[Highrev1]

THey will probably fade on you Moose is here he can help..

[Moose]

Originally Posted by videogmike

so moose, do you do many hpde events? are the stock pads really that awful if i'm going to be hitting up a road course? the car only has 12k miles on it...i have trouble justifying getting pads now, rather than going and beating the piss out of it at the track and then upgrading pads.

if you think i should get new pads, i was looking at the carbotech xp6 they look to be streetable and certainly good enough for a track day on the stock all season tires. for some reason carbotech's site seems to be down the last few days, if i recall though the temp range for the xp6 is 100-1000...is 100 too hot for dd? i think i could probably get in the habit of heating them up a little bit every time i first get in the car if you think that's actually necessary?

thoughts?

HDPE ... On average ... About 3-4 a year (30-40 in the past 8 years) ... this year I intend to do more


I "personally" would do two things ...

Change the fluid to a higher temp version ... Motul RBF or ATE Superblue at the least, and bring a spare bottle and bleeder along. This is the most important in my eyes. You are more likely to boil the fluid before trashing the pads.

I personally would also change the OE pads to a more aggressive/higher heat compound. I do not think you need to go as aggressive as the XP6 ... Somthing along the lines of a Hawk HP+ would be a good start. The other thing I like about changing out the pads is that you now have a set (OLD OE) that you can bring along to drive home on just in case.


How aggressive you "need" to go is dependant on your driving style ... if you are a "smoothie" then you need less brake then a guy like me that is VERY aggresive and brakes VERY late. I am hard on brakes. I will be running German Pentosin Fluid (572F (Dry) 473F (Wet)) and Project Mu Titan Kai Pads(0-1450 F)

Moose

[Highrev1]

Late Braking FTW!!! I am abusive on brakes and tires... Then again I am practicing for when Moose and I get out on a track together

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Late Braking FTW!!! I am abusive on brakes and tires... Then again I am practicing for when Moose and I get out on a track together

I will be waiting for you ....






Moose

[Highrev1]

I knew I was walking funny for a reason

[Highrev1]

SWEET!!! Is that a disc brake clock on the wall behind you

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

SWEET!!! Is that a disc brake clock on the wall behind you

HAHHAHAHA - YEAH It is ...Sooooo Sad

Moose

[videogmike]

oh i've done road course before in my 99 prelude, i know alll about ate super blue and the need for good fluid.
i was seeking advice for my si as i hear everyone whining all the time about the stock brakes being bad...when i think stock for stock the si is wayyy nicer than my prelude

i think i'm pretty aggressive for the run group i go in, i usually go in the novice since i only have about 3 track days under my belt, but i'm usually passing a lot of people-i might need to bump up this year

edit: you really think hp+ would be good enough? maybe if i had some better tires i'd need some stronger brakes?

edit 2: wow 0-1450? that sounds beyond perfect, or do those tear up rotors the way the hp+ supposedly do?

[Moose]

Originally Posted by videogmike

oh i've done road course before in my 99 prelude, i know alll about ate super blue and the need for good fluid.
i was seeking advice for my si as i hear everyone whining all the time about the stock brakes being bad...when i think stock for stock the si is wayyy nicer than my prelude

i think i'm pretty aggressive for the run group i go in, i usually go in the novice since i only have about 3 track days under my belt, but i'm usually passing a lot of people-i might need to bump up this year

edit: you really think hp+ would be good enough? maybe if i had some better tires i'd need some stronger brakes?

edit 2: wow 0-1450? that sounds beyond perfect, or do those tear up rotors the way the hp+ supposedly do?

If you are running on A/S street tires then HP+ will be fine .... your tires will always be the limiting factor. I used to Run HP+ on my track car (with R-compounds) .... they worked reasonably well, not perfect by a long shot, but way better than OE. I ultimately upgraded to a dedicated set of track rotors and Hawk Blues which I would change out at the track.

HP+ are VERY rotor friendly ... they just dust a fair bit. They should provide a good balance between mostly street and some track. I like the initial bite, and the REALLY good modulation. Very easy to drive fast on.

The Project Mu Titan Kai's are Great BUT uber expensive ... BUT what do you expect with a broad heat range like that ... and they are pretty rotor friendly ... BUT I would not run them in the winter.

I have run the Carbotechs, and did not like them ... but I am a monority, alot of peeps swear by them.

Cobalts may also be an option ... I have heard good things about them.

The Porterfield R4S are similar to the Hawk HP+ ... it really depends on what your locally supplier can do for you. That may end up dictating what your get.


Moose