Brake options

[jrotax101]

i removed it , and it now serves as a spider web holder up near the roof of the garage. lol

the tool will/should still work. all you have to do is turn the piston back in. It has a vertical and horizontal groove.

[DRIVEN1]

Originally Posted by jrotax101

i removed it , and it now serves as a spider web holder up near the roof of the garage. lol

the tool will/should still work. all you have to do is turn the piston back in. It has a vertical and horizontal groove.

So your a spider catcher now. So you don't think it messed with your air flow when you were back on the track? I was thinking just leaving if off, but Honda had to put it there for a reason.

[DRIVEN1]

[
The Best cheap option for the street is the PBR/Axis Ultimates ...they are almost as good as the HP + , better than the HPS and CHEAP ... I would go for those as a street pad persoannly.

Cheers

Moose[/quote]

Moose I am going to try the PBR/Axis Ultimates in the front for the street. I will be leaving the hp+ in the rear on the street and track and that will be a good match with the axis up front? Does your guy up north sell these? I can not find any info on where to buy them on the forum.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by DRIVEN1

Moose I am going to try the PBR/Axis Ultimates in the front for the street. I will be leaving the hp+ in the rear on the street and track and that will be a good match with the axis up front? Does your guy up north sell these? I can not find any info on where to buy them on the forum.

It should work ... the back "MAY" grab a bit harder than the rear ... it is really hard to say as I have never run that combo. I genrally like a slightly more aggresive front pad ... but the PBR and Hawk should be close enough


Evasive Motorsports a Site sponsor carries AXIS ...

If that does not work out

I generally buy mine thru thru Carl at
Trac Racing Depot Trac Racing Depot inc.
carl@tracracing.com


Pete at Northern Does NOT carry PBR / AXIS to my knowledge ...



Moose

[mattsbobo]

Originally Posted by jrotax101

No, i told him they were needed, he said they were never on.. however they are needed.

I'll get them from tire rack - hopefully they know the correct size needed

I believe the ring size is 63.1

[FALer]

Originally Posted by DRIVEN1

For $10 I would buy it, but I just googled the above description and it goes for $60-$70.

Then you didn't look at Sears, where it is $11.99.

Lisle Disc Brake Piston Tool - Model 28600 at Sears.com

[DRIVEN1]

Originally Posted by FALer

Then you didn't look at Sears, where it is $11.99.

Lisle Disc Brake Piston Tool - Model 28600 at Sears.com

Much nicer, so have you used it before? Makes the job easier?

[FALer]

Originally Posted by DRIVEN1

Much nicer, so have you used it before? Makes the job easier?

It might be easier with a big screwdriver, but no screwdriver I've seen has a blade thick enough to be an exact fit, which means you might slip out. I never tried it without it and use a 3/8" ratchet and a 4" extension with the tool.

[DRIVEN1]

Originally Posted by FALer

It might be easier with a big screwdriver, but no screwdriver I've seen has a blade thick enough to be an exact fit, which means you might slip out. I never tried it without it and use a 3/8" ratchet and a 4" extension with the tool.

Thanks for the info, I am going to order it and add it to the tool chest. I will try next month.

[R4DG]

any comments on Motul 5.1 brake fluid?

it seems to be targeted for the street driver with less flushes compared to RBF and ATE
which is a turn off for me, i dont feel like bleeding my brake fluid often

[Moose]

Originally Posted by R4DG

any comments on Motul 5.1 brake fluid?

it seems to be targeted for the street driver with less flushes compared to RBF and ATE
which is a turn off for me, i dont feel like bleeding my brake fluid often

Motul 5.1 is esentially a high performance street fluid, and will probably not be enough for any track days.

The Wet Spec is what is more likely going to determine how often you need to bleed/flush your system for a dalily driven car.


Brake Fluids are hygroscopic and will absorb water from the atmosphere. This degrades the fluid's performance, and if allowed to accumulate over a period of time, can drastically reduce its boiling point. So a higher wet temp ultimatley means it less effected by moisture, thus you have to bleed it less.


DOT Brake Fluid Minimum Specifications

DOT 3 205°C/401°F(Dry) 140°C/284°F(Wet)
DOT 4 230°C/446°F(Dry) 155°C/311°F(Wet)
DOT 5 260°C/500°F(Dry) 180°C/356°F(Wet)
DOT 5.1 270°C/518°F(Dry) 191°C/375°F(Wet)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Motul RBF 600 311C/593F (Dry) 215C/411F (Wet)
------------------------------------------------------------
Motul DOT 5.1 275C/527F (Dry) 185C/365F (Wet)
------------------------------------------------------------
ATE Super Blue 280C/536F (Dry) 204C/400F (Wet)
------------------------------------------------------------
Pentosin Racing Brake Fluid 300C/572F (Dry) 200C/473F (Wet)
------------------------------------------------------------

So if you are going to only street drive your car, use what ever you like and teh DOT 5.1 will work just fine., BUT if you are going to track your car, you should go with a much higher temp rating


I noticed a pretty big difference in performance between the ATE and the Pentosin ... and the Pentosin does not have a lot more temp range on paper ... the increase in perfomance was greater than the temp difference. I typically look closer at the wet rating than the dry as it is what a daily driver is going to be closer to.



Moose

[R4DG]

okay according to your post about the change intervals are related to the wet temp

the higher the wet temp, the less you bleed it

well how come RBF600 has a higher wet temp (30c) but still needs to be changed more often? is there another (significant) factor that determines change intervals?

[DRIVEN1]

Originally Posted by Moose

Motul 5.1 is esentially a high performance street fluid, and will probably not be enough for any track days.

The Wet Spec is what is more likely going to determine how often you need to bleed/flush your system for a dalily driven car.


Brake Fluids are hygroscopic and will absorb water from the atmosphere. This degrades the fluid's performance, and if allowed to accumulate over a period of time, can drastically reduce its boiling point. So a higher wet temp ultimatley means it less effected by moisture, thus you have to bleed it less.


DOT Brake Fluid Minimum Specifications
---------------------------------------------------------------
DOT 3 205°C/401°F(Dry) 140°C/284°F(Wet)
--------------------------------------------------------------
DOT 4 230°C/446°F(Dry) 155°C/311°F(Wet)
---------------------------------------------------------------
DOT 5 260°C/500°F(Dry) 180°C/356°F(Wet)
--------------------------------------------------------------
DOT 5.1 270°C/518°F(Dry) 191°C/375°F(Wet)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Motul RBF 600 311C/593F (Dry) 215C/411F (Wet)
------------------------------------------------------------
Motul DOT 5.1 275C/527F (Dry) 185C/365F (Wet)
------------------------------------------------------------
ATE Super Blue 280C/536F (Dry) 204C/400F (Wet)
------------------------------------------------------------
Pentosin Racing Brake Fluid 300C/572F (Dry) 200C/473F (Wet)
------------------------------------------------------------

So if you are going to only street drive your car, use what ever you like and teh DOT 5.1 will work just fine., BUT if you are going to track your car, you should go with a much higher temp rating


I noticed a pretty differnce in perfoamance between the ATE and the Pentosin ... and the Pentocin does not have a lot more temp range ... the increase in perfomance was greater than the temp difference. I typically look closer at the wet rating tahn the dry as it is what a daily driver is going to be closer to.



Moose

That is why I will be using the Castol SRF.
The highest wet point out there. Of course it is just a little on the expensive side.
Castrol SRF
This is the ultimate racing brake fluid!
(Dry 590/Wet 518)

[DRIVEN1]

Originally Posted by Moose

It should work ... the back "MAY" grab a bit harder than the rear ... it is really hard to say as I have never run that combo. I genrally like a slightly more aggresive front pad ... but the PBR and Hawk should be close enough


Evasive Motorsports a Site sponsor carries AXIS ...


Moose

Just when I think I have it figured out you got to throw that out there.

Did I ask you about running the Hawk + up front on the street? Don't remember if you said that it would be way to aggressive for the street.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by R4DG

okay according to your post about the change intervals are related to the wet temp

the higher the wet temp, the less you bleed it

well how come RBF600 has a higher wet temp (30c) but still needs to be changed more often? is there another (significant) factor that determines change intervals?

Hmmm It may be the additives (Rust inhibitors) perhaps ... I am not to sure ... You could Email Motul and ask why they say the 5.1 has longer intervals than the RBF

I have neer run anything other than Pentosn / Motul RBF or SRF in my Street or track cars. I flush my brakes at last once a year ... it is cheap insurance in my eyes ... takes 1/2 hour and costs about $20 in fluid.


Moose

[Moose]

Originally Posted by DRIVEN1

Just when I think I have it figured out you got to throw that out there.

Did I ask you about running the Hawk + up front on the street? Don't remember if you said that it would be way to aggressive for the street.

I do not beleive I said that ... I run HP+ or AXIS Ultimates on the street generally.

I prefer the HP+ if I am Autocrossing as it has better initial bite.

The HP+ is not aggressive enough for the track though though, plenty fine for the street ... The HAWK HPS is not worth the money though ..that could be what I was refering to.

Moose

[Moose]

FYI - If you track your car ...check your front caliper piston dust seals.

Both mine are DONE ... fried to a crisp from the heat generated by my track day abuse


Moose

[jrotax101]

Originally Posted by Moose

FYI - If you track your car ...check your front caliper piston dust seals.

Both mine are DONE ... fried to a crisp from the heat generated by my track day abuse


Moose

I'd hardly call it abuse.. When you get the rotors glowing.. that is abuse.

Wear and tear items are damaged whilst having fun

No point in replacing those though as you'll just do it again next time out. Unless you have neverending pockets, or like me.. on a damn small budget and already turned my pockets inside out a few times looking for more

[Moose]

Originally Posted by jrotax101

I'd hardly call it abuse.. When you get the rotors glowing.. that is abuse.

Wear and tear items are damaged whilst having fun

No point in replacing those though as you'll just do it again next time out. Unless you have neverending pockets, or like me.. on a damn small budget and already turned my pockets inside out a few times looking for more

Glowing rotors are beautifull ... particularily at dusk when you are lapping .... Most race compound pads SPIT Flames and sparks. I have had a few newbies come running to me all concerned saying that my brakes are on fire ... HAHAHHA !!!

I took a couple of bystanders out for a spin on Saturday ... they were commenting on my smoking brakes after the sessions ... they had never seen that before.

Hot brakes make changing the brakes and tires AFTER an event REALLY suck ... I have multiple small burns and scars on my forearms from them calipers.


Wear and tear items ... YA .... $800 tires, $200 brake pads, $100 rotors, $70/litre brake fluid, $50 / litre Synthetic motor oil / ... Sh*t ... $20 for a caliper rebuild kit is chump change : )

... I do a full brake rebuild in the fall when I convert my car to its winter setup (OE suspension, OE brakes, OE swaybar, OE bushings, Winter rims/tires, etc)



Moose

[jrotax101]

Originally Posted by Moose

... I do a full brake rebuild in the fall when I convert my car to its winter setup (OE suspension, OE brakes, OE swaybar, OE bushings, Winter rims/tires, etc)



Moose

Sorry, could you elaborate on what that " winter" word is.. (i'm joking)

Apart from the above mentioned problem what else do you "rebuild" during the off season.
Sorry for so many questions.. when i raced i was on a new chassis every 3 months so i never rebuilt anything.