HFP Vs. Stock suspension on Auto-x

[CivicBeater]

First off I would like to say I was extremely impressed with how well my car (with HFP suspension installed) performed. Josuesi (stock suspension) were able to compare very well what differences their were in the two.

Not just did I have less body roll, however MORE TRACTION! Because my body wasn't getting tossed around as much my tires were sticking to the ground ALOT more therefore improving my times that much more. Don't get me wrong, stock suspension is extremely capable matched up with sticky tires. Refer to Pro driver taking ranger's si (nice tires stock suspension) around the track and running 7 seconds faster than my best time. It seems though in the hands of an amature that the suspension upgrade is going to benefit you the most. I sooooo cannot wait until I finally get to match my HFP suspension with a nice set of tires. Goodbyeeeee subaru!!!

HFP (mine):


Stock:

[CivicBeater]

bump?

[Izzy]

Wow, that's a lot of body roll. That's probably the one thing I don't really like about the feel of the car. I could do with less of it.

[Highrev1]

Body roll is no indication of how well or poorly a car handles.

[CivicBeater]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Body roll is no indication of how well or poorly a car handles.

it does dictate how much traction you get though.

[Highrev1]

Originally Posted by CivicBeater

it does dictate how much traction you get though.

Nope..... I can elaborate if you wish

[CivicBeater]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Nope.....

YEP

the more body roll creates more inertia?

However I don't want to cross the suspension king (in all seriousness) so please elaborate

[Highrev1]

OH boy....R u sure you want to do this?

[CivicBeater]

LOL no i'm not

[Englishe30]

oooo this is gonna be a good one...

[Highrev1]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Thought I would bring this back up top and start a new discussion...

We are going to discuss why lowering a car acutally increases body roll...and can allow for worse camber curves than stock... Why does the body roll more? Well you are lowering the Center of gravity, but also to roll center. You in theory want to be reducing how much weight gets transfered to the outside tires. Rember the most traction your car can make is when it is sitting in a flat parking spot. As weight is added to a tire traction is increased at a decelerating rate. The more you can balance that weight between tires the more traction can be made.
What you are in effect doing when you lower the car is acutally lengthing the distance between the Center of gravity and the roll center on the car.

So unless you compensate for that with stiffer springs your car will have more body roll. Also if you go too low, under compression you can acutally go into a positve camber situation Bad for a MacStrut Car.Stolen from here

We will work on figuring out wheel rates for our cars next

OK this \/ is why I suspect you think BOdy roll is an issue right more of a feel thing than anything?? THis is not from you but from someone else.

Originally Posted by Unknown

I don't like the feel of the body roll is the main issue.

Is it more a felling you have than anything?

I will elaborate on WHY body roll doesn't tell about handling, gimme a minute I am still at work and have to do some

[Izzy]

I will say myself that I don't like the feel of body roll either. It makes me feel unsure of the car in the corner. I know that it won't be affecting the handling much either way, but it will affect how *i* would drive the car.

[Highrev1]

I think I got that quote from you IZZY

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/showt...ll#post1167069

OP we have discussed this in this thread starting at post 45 here....


"Fun thing about anti-roll bars. in doing thier jobs of resisting body roll, they also increase the load on the outside tire. which, given the way tires make traction, means that there is a Net reduction in the total amount of traction that end of the car can make"

"In simpler terms...you want to run the softest springs you can get away with that reduces body roll to an Livable level, and has an approperate roll couple balance to give you the oversteer/understeer charateristics you want with the most grip your car can achieve."

Basically run as soft as you can without camber loss...

[Izzy]

It's truth. I guess I've just been experiencing it more lately (maybe I should let a bit of air out of my tires?) but I don't like that feeling -- it feels like I should be able to go a bit faster if the car would balance out. I like that planted feeling, but I do prefer not to sacrifice any handling goodness either. Guess I'll really just have to take it AutoX and see where I end up...that said, I need to find out how to get dates for that kinda thing!

[93sidood]

okay, so.. is the HFP kit really better that the stock or is that incorrect?? is it just a different feeling?

[CivicBeater]

Originally Posted by 93sidood

okay, so.. is the HFP kit really better that the stock or is that incorrect?? is it just a different feeling?

It really is better. Times prove it.

[lonelydriver]

Are hfp design for auto-x use?

[Yodums]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Body roll is no indication of how well or poorly a car handles.

I swear, as I was reading the initial post, I had this voice in the back of my head that was repeating this sentence.

[CivicBeater]

Originally Posted by lonelydriver

Are hfp design for auto-x use?

well it's not really set-up for something as agressive as auto-x. However, it proved to be ALOT better than stock suspension in my experience.

[Sirbelch]

I don't think anyone likes body roll. More roll = less confidence = slower lap times. So, just let the dog roll over, the tires will tell you when you hit the limit, not the angle of the body in relation to the ground. When you take away body roll, you have one less data point in which to figure out what the car is doing. On the stock car, once my head was close enough to the ground to kiss it, i knew the limit was close. Now with 500 pound springs, there is less than half the amout of body roll and i can't tell how close to the limit i am by looking out the window anymore.