When To Use Camber Kits?/do I Need A Camber Kit?

[Highrev1]

Since the same question is reposted about 5 times a day I thought I would repost my own information. Its a repost lets see how long it stays

WHEN TO USE CAMBER KITS?/DO I NEED A CAMBER KIT? YES!!!!

The real answer is its up to you. Do you want to handle better, reduce tire wear or have real control over your suspension?


ALIGNMENTS!!

IN ORDER TO CHANGE CAMBER YOU WILL NEED A FRONT AND REAR CAMBER KIT!!!!!

Well you guys spend alot of money on your suspension parts right. Then you go right back to the OEM alignment which uh sucks. That alignment is not for performance. It is strickly to make tires last and make sure your car understeers. Both of those things don't make a car turn well. You will need a set or 2 of front camber bolts, and a rear camber kit to adjust camber.

The factory specs are as follows.
Camber
Front
0 º 00 '±30 '
Rear
-1 º 30 '+1 º 05 '-0 º 45 '
Caster
Front
7 º 00 '±1 º
Total toe-in
Front
0±2 mm (0±0.08 in.)
Rear
2+2-1 mm (0.08+0.08-0.04 in.)

So why are these specs Crap? We want more oversteer without Murdering our tires right. A balanced less "pushy" car.
Well, If you look at the OEM spec's, Honda has setup these specs to pretty much allow for NO camber up front. And about -1 degree in the rear. Why? So your car understeers. This is so the car is safe for you to drive without the waggin the tail all over the place. This also does not allow for good turn in or a "fun" car to drive.

We need to change this. Why Camber does not eat tires. Ok so maybee it does but not nearly as bad as TOE, we will get to this. So the more -camber up front the car will handle better. TO a point anyway. And you need to balance out the rear’s camber to “match” to front to have a balance, slightly overteering FWD car is the "fast" way around a track.

TOE TOE eats TIRES!! Toe can help a cars handling. Too much toe and you eat tires and the car can wander on the highway. Too little and you are hindering the cars ability to turn.

Toe out on the front will tend to make the car turn in better and toe in on the nose will make the car understeer more. For the street I say 1/32 shouldn't effect tire wear enough for the gains.

For the rear, Toe out will increase the cars tendency to oversteer, where toe in will decrease it. More toe in to make it understeer more (less oversteer) More towards toe out to make it rotate more.
If you want to keep your tires ok and still turn well.

Camber Front = -1.5 to -1.75
Camber Rear = -1 to -1.25
Toe front = 1/32nd toe out I am now suggesting 0 Toe Most people won't be able to realize that the car has the toe, especially on the street.
Toe Rear = 0

EDIT by ERIC AKA bluroadster-toll booth operator- alignment specifications depend on the nature of driving. Driving on the twisties, one would want more - camber vice if one was driving on the highway all of the time where their style of driving would eat the inside of the tires.

A "race"/track day alignment is going to be even more wear but will handle better.

[Type_R_Nammer]

thank you, it got a little cluttered in here lol.

edit:

for example after the car gets lowered (without camber kit) you still have to go for an alignment to adjust the toe right?

[Highrev1]

Originally Posted by Type_R_Nammer

thank you, it got a little cluttered in here lol

It did right...sorry. It just seems its the same questions over and over and over...anyone agree.

[Highrev1]

I would...when you do an alignment you do camber then toe, cause changing camber can change the toe of the car. SO that is the last thing you do. I would also get FRONT AND REAT camber kits to allow for adjust of the stock suspension. To optimize the alignment and acutally get better handling rather then worse.

[JRM_FG2]

who cares if its a repost, this is great info

[Highrev1]

Well its in the sticky up top... and noone bothers to read that, thats the point Also that this repost will be here for a while.

[Yodums]

This thread is now a sticky. Hopefully this will put an end to half the questions in this forum.

[Highrev1]

THANKS GOOD SIR

IT WON"T...people don't read the stickies...you know that

If you were assigned here you would know better that it gets asked 6 times a day.

I digress...I would rather have a stock car with good tires and a good alignment, rather than a car with a set of "JDM" coilovers and "jdm" Tires. Any good driver would smoke the latter...

[Yodums]

Yep, I know people won't read it. But being a sticky, I can easily find the link and lock the threads accordingly. Unfortunately, your last thread was a bit lengthy, so a lot of people skipped over that good stuff.

[xxbodkinxx]

Great writeup. I will be using your suggestions most likely as far as camber settings go for my setup I install this coming weekend.

[yourwhiteshadow]

awesome. maybe we should add suggested camber kits and prices/where to get them?

[Highrev1]

Unfortunaltyl We can't suggest where to get them as that answer COULD be biased With that said I would always suggest the SPCc camber kit as they are easier to adjust cause they can be adjusted while on the car rather than having to take apart ALOT of items in order to adjust them :) GREG

[AznSupastar]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Unfortunaltyl We can't suggest where to get them as that answer COULD be biased With that said I would always suggest the SPCc camber kit as they are easier to adjust cause they can be adjusted while on the car rather than having to take apart ALOT of items in order to adjust them :) GREG

thx 4 the excellent info highrev1. i'm thinking of following ur suggestion and not touch toe / caster and only make -1.5 front camber and -1 rear camber.

with this setting, how uneven would that make my tires (considering kumho SPT tires) for a 90% gentle daily driving?

also, if i got with SPC front and back camber. i only need 1 camber kit for each tire? cuz i heard of getting "front camber bolts x 2 to get -2 front camber....

[Ci_Vic]

I have read in a few posts that you don't need a camber kit if you install the HFP suspension on your civic. Why is that?

[b16er]

Ok guys I have a question for ya. What is the list of specs that I could give to my alignment shop to give the wonderful handling possible you mentioned at the first post? And whether the car is stock height or lowered, the specs would apply to both, correct? My FG has stock suspension but I want it to handle better without lowering springs at this point. I understand I will need a new alignment when and if I do get springs, but for the meantime, all I need is a camber kit and a wicked alignment. PLEASE TELL ME SOME RECOMMENDED SPECS!

[Type_R_Nammer]

Originally Posted by Ci_Vic

I have read in a few posts that you don't need a camber kit if you install the HFP suspension on your civic. Why is that?

cause the drop is like less than an inch.

[LucasBlack]

Originally Posted by b16er

Ok guys I have a question for ya. What is the list of specs that I could give to my alignment shop to give the wonderful handling possible you mentioned at the first post? And whether the car is stock height or lowered, the specs would apply to both, correct? My FG has stock suspension but I want it to handle better without lowering springs at this point. I understand I will need a new alignment when and if I do get springs, but for the meantime, all I need is a camber kit and a wicked alignment. PLEASE TELL ME SOME RECOMMENDED SPECS!

*this is my personal opinion, please take with grains of salt*

as far as camber bolts for the front go - i would get one set(one camber bolt per side) and then have the alignment shop adjust them to receive the max amount of neg. camber possible. i believe they max out at, or just above, 1 degree of neg. camber. i think this would be a good start in letting you understand the difference in feel between stock and what a little neg. camber can do for your handling performance.

and as long as all of your miles are not just highway/straightline, then uneven tire wear shouldn't be an issue. keeping up with a regular tire rotation schedule is not a bad idea as well.

[LucasBlack]

Originally Posted by Type_R_Nammer

cause the drop is like less than an inch.

yes, because the amount of drop that it provides does not cause enough of a change in camber to cause adverse effects to your tires.
...just keep a steady tire rotation schedule and everything should be fine.

[Type_R_Nammer]

Originally Posted by LucasBlack

yes, because the amount of drop that it provides does not cause enough of a change in camber to cause adverse effects to your tires.
...just keep a steady tire rotation schedule and everything should be fine.

well put =)

[b16er]

Originally Posted by LucasBlack

*this is my personal opinion, please take with grains of salt*

as far as camber bolts for the front go - i would get one set(one camber bolt per side) and then have the alignment shop adjust them to receive the max amount of neg. camber possible. i believe they max out at, or just above, 1 degree of neg. camber. i think this would be a good start in letting you understand the difference in feel between stock and what a little neg. camber can do for your handling performance.

and as long as all of your miles are not just highway/straightline, then uneven tire wear shouldn't be an issue. keeping up with a regular tire rotation schedule is not a bad idea as well.

Ok thanks for the input. What about the rear camber?