When To Use Camber Kits?/do I Need A Camber Kit? - Page 5

27IVTEC · 01-23-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highrev1

IMO..It's not about springs...Its about being able to adjust your alignment settings...Though maybee needed for tire wear why not have real control over your suspesnion for handling features?

But will I be OK wear wise if I get the springs now and get a camber kit this summer? I do keep my tires rotated regularly.

***Highrev1*** · 01-23-2008, 11:48 PM

Are ou gonna get an alignment to correct the toe changes due to lowering? If so then yes you should be OK....aLTHOUGH NOT ideal imo.

27IVTEC · 01-23-2008, 11:53 PM

Yes I will get an alignment, do you think the car would handle worse than stock w/o a camber kit?

***Highrev1*** · 01-23-2008, 11:57 PM

Its is possible...I havent done testing to say for sure, but it is possible...It does increase Body roll which in turn can increase utalizing more of the outer edge of the tire reducing contact patch reducing handling...So I dunno Haven't done testing

aki · 01-24-2008, 01:04 AM

Spring Testing - Eibach Springs at The Tire Rack.

Lowering springs can improve handling, and the increased roll is offset by stiffer springs. I don't see a point to lower more than 1" though with just springs, in terms of performance.

Whether the rear needs camber kit depends on how much your car got affected by the drop. On my car for example, they were able to knock off 1 degree of negative camber to the rear without a camber arm, from -2.7 to -1.7, which is within factory specs.

***BTRobertson*** · 02-10-2008, 01:47 PM

I've read through this entire sticky and there is a lot of subjective material strewn about, which isn't a bad thing, but I'm not sure if there's the right combo of parts/plans that pertain to me (unless I missed it, so forgive me if I did).

Here's my "idea" (loosely defined idea, more specifically) - am I on the right track to better handling...

Parts I'm looking at adding to a STOCK 2007 Sedan Si suspension:

Eibach Sportline lowering springs - 1.4" drop F/R (though I hear it's less than that)
Progress Rear Sway bar with new endlinks (the stock endlinks, I'm told, will break)
Ingall's front camber bolt kit

The reason I didn't want to add a front sway bar is because of HighRev1's awesome Suspension sticky, where I garnered some info regarding adding a rear only, or if you add both front and rear sways, make sure the rear one is larger/stiffer.

95% daily driver car, want better handling when I drive the back roads (which I do), and I will put better tires on it because HighRev1 is a huge fan of simply putting better tires on a car to improve handling.

Are these three parts good for non-track, daily driving use - married with a better alignment, will it give me better handling? Thanks all!

***Highrev1*** · 02-10-2008, 02:01 PM

Sounds pretty darn good..Maybee down the road get a rear camber kit to be able to adjust rear camber...

I love putting better tires on a car, they will ALways be the limiting factor as to how many G's you can pull, how fast you can stop, how much you can accelerate...Nothing else is touching the ground othere than those 4 contact patches of the tire, if they aren't up to snuff then really the other stuff is basically a waste

***BTRobertson*** · 02-10-2008, 07:03 PM

Very true. I had to put snow tires on my car since I drive a decent distance to work (which is ending this week, thankfully) and winter is crap in Pittsburgh...and we have PennDOT. WOW!!! What a dramatic difference for the negative in the way my car handles now. I've done nothing on my car's stock suspension as of yet, but just the switching of the tires made it handle far worse - so your point is 100% valid (not that I doubted your tire statement, but I didn't realize just how much of a difference it made until my change).

So yeah, Spring will find me with a much better handling car, me thinks... :)

Design · 02-11-2008, 09:28 PM

Great thread Highrev1. Thought I would add my 2 cents... take it for what it's worth.

Camber angle indirectly contributes to total agregate tire wear in that fact that a small amount of TOE is used for stability at high speed. If you agree that slight TOE misalignments will occur over time, a camber kit can reduce the negative affects of TOE wear to the tire's respective side, provided it's matched appropriately to your driving habits.

For example - if you run an agressive camber setting and are prone to excessive amounts of straightline driving, you may start to notice a saw-toothed wear pattern forming on the inner 20% of the tire surface. Instead of having negligible TOE wear across 80% of the tire's surface, you have severe TOE wear concentrated at the respective angle of camber. Visually, you might not notice anything until it's severe. This is because a very minor difference in wear is magnified over time by heat and the tire's inability to dissipate heat on one side. Essentially, one side of the tire's surface is running hotter than the other, causing that side to wear progressively faster in a VERY short time. Early signs are often noted by running your fingers at an angle across the tire's surface, checking for a pattern of unusally sharp edges in one direction.

I only add this because MANY people complain of uneven tire wear even after routine alignment/ideal TOE settings (LOL, I was a victim many, many years ago). Furthermore, many people are unaware of how to check for uneven wear beyond a visual inspection. Hope this helps, or at least adds perspective on deciding whether a camber kit is for you.

ac2539 · 02-12-2008, 04:32 AM

my rear camber is at -1.5 right now. I ordered a set of front camber bolts and i'll be getting a new alignment soon. ive read of many people on here setting more negative camber up front than in the rear, would it be LESS beneficial if i had both front and back set at -1.5 as opposed to having -1.5 up front and say...-1.0 in the rear?

***BTRobertson*** · 02-12-2008, 07:43 AM

It all depends on how you drive, it seems. :) But, I've heard that for the daily drivers among us, an even camber angle F and R would be best.

friedk · 02-13-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac2539

my rear camber is at -1.5 right now. I ordered a set of front camber bolts and i'll be getting a new alignment soon. ive read of many people on here setting more negative camber up front than in the rear, would it be LESS beneficial if i had both front and back set at -1.5 as opposed to having -1.5 up front and say...-1.0 in the rear?

Yes, you want the front to have more grip so the car will rotate better. Go -1.5" rear -1.0.

***Sirbelch*** · 02-13-2008, 03:59 PM

The rear supension gains negative camber under compression where the front doesnt gain any. So you need more in the front to keep the two balanced.

JEA86 · 02-13-2008, 05:59 PM

ok question this may sound dumb but i am dropping my Si on comptech springs and i have 1 set of SPC front camber bolts and a Set of SPC rear camber arms. Now my question is should i get another set of front bolts, i have read through the whole sticky and nobody has really said if it requires 1 or 2 sets

***Sirbelch*** · 02-13-2008, 06:22 PM

You will have a bigger range of ajustment with two. Since they are soooo cheap, why not get two.

Ek37 · 02-14-2008, 10:17 AM

i just bought eibach sportlines, i dont want to buy the rear spc arms yet ($235 is too much) so from what i hear i am looking at -2.5 for the rear. i did get the ingalls camber bolts, what should i have them set to? would -1.0 be ok, i dont want premature or uneven tire wear in the front, but dont care about the back. what should i do?

camber front: -.75 to -1.00
rear : -2.5

toe front: 0.00
rear: 0.00
does that sound okay?
if not please post. thanks

Ek37 · 02-14-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

You will have a bigger range of ajustment with two. Since they are soooo cheap, why not get two.

bigger range of adjustment <----please elaborate, if im only using 1 set where do i put them up top or bottom holes?

ok just checked 4 bolts as seen here Honda Automotive Parts 4 stock camber bolts, now....do i need to buy 4 or is 2 good enough to make it to -1.0?

***Sirbelch*** · 02-14-2008, 02:34 PM

one should get you to -1. I haven't used camber bolts because I have camber plates for the front.

friedk · 02-14-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ek37

i just bought eibach sportlines, i dont want to buy the rear spc arms yet ($235 is too much) so from what i hear i am looking at -2.5 for the rear. i did get the ingalls camber bolts, what should i have them set to? would -1.0 be ok, i dont want premature or uneven tire wear in the front, but dont care about the back. what should i do?

camber front: -.75 to -1.00
rear : -2.5

toe front: 0.00
rear: 0.00
does that sound okay?
if not please post. thanks

You're not gonna get a good performance camber setting..what was the point of modding your suspension to handle worse? I managed to get -1.5 with my single set of front camber bolts.

Buy a used set of camber arms on the forums for like 150$.

Ek37 · 02-14-2008, 03:33 PM

seriously... this is getting too technical and over rated IMO. soon we will have to sport thongs to save weight and look cool not to mention satisfy others while driving with enthusiasm on the streets.

"modding suspension to handle worst" that is way over rated...and i am getting sick now. i used to rock skunk 2 coilover sleeves with blown shocks car slammed to the ground where i would brake my oil pan on a manhole cover that wasnt even sticking out, i had no alighnment, no camber adjusted, and i was happy as hell driving the crap out of my 00 civic ex coupe. and now...everything's got to be this way or it doesn't work. geeeeeeez let's grow up, take some risks, and enjoy what we got instead of search for the perfect ride just to empty out our wallets on stupid cars. what is your strategy on ur savings accounts and retirement, or do you plan on living paycheck to paycheck for the rest of your life, paying mortgage for the next 30 years????? chances are you wont even make that last payment cuz you will crap out of some stupid disease,,,,, damn i sound like im flipping out but just speaking my mind here. i ask for advice and i get back completely irrelevant answers.

02-11-2008, 09:28 PM	#89 (permalink)
Design Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 176 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Great thread Highrev1. Thought I would add my 2 cents... take it for what it's worth. Camber angle indirectly contributes to total agregate tire wear in that fact that a small amount of TOE is used for stability at high speed. If you agree that slight TOE misalignments will occur over time, a camber kit can reduce the negative affects of TOE wear to the tire's respective side, provided it's matched appropriately to your driving habits. For example - if you run an agressive camber setting and are prone to excessive amounts of *straightline* driving, you may start to notice a saw-toothed wear pattern forming on the inner 20% of the tire surface. Instead of having negligible TOE wear across 80% of the tire's surface, you have severe TOE wear concentrated at the respective angle of camber. Visually, you might not notice anything until it's severe. This is because a very minor difference in wear is magnified over time by heat and the tire's inability to dissipate heat on one side. Essentially, one side of the tire's surface is running hotter than the other, causing that side to wear progressively faster in a VERY short time. Early signs are often noted by running your fingers at an angle across the tire's surface, checking for a pattern of unusally sharp edges in one direction. I only add this because MANY people complain of uneven tire wear even after routine alignment/ideal TOE settings (LOL, I was a victim many, many years ago). Furthermore, many people are unaware of how to check for uneven wear beyond a visual inspection. Hope this helps, or at least adds perspective on deciding whether a camber kit is for you. Last edited by Design; 02-11-2008 at 09:41 PM.

02-13-2008, 03:59 PM	#93 (permalink)
*Sirbelch* Louder than 4 F404-GE-400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vacaville CA Age: 26 Posts: 4,047 Paul iTrader: 1 / 100%	The rear supension gains negative camber under compression where the front doesnt gain any. So you need more in the front to keep the two balanced. __________________ Waking up dead inside of my head will never never do, there is no med, no medicine to take. I've had a chance to be insane, asylum from the falling rain. I’ve had a chance to break.

02-13-2008, 06:22 PM	#95 (permalink)
*Sirbelch* Louder than 4 F404-GE-400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vacaville CA Age: 26 Posts: 4,047 Paul iTrader: 1 / 100%	You will have a bigger range of ajustment with two. Since they are soooo cheap, why not get two. __________________ Waking up dead inside of my head will never never do, there is no med, no medicine to take. I've had a chance to be insane, asylum from the falling rain. I’ve had a chance to break.

02-14-2008, 02:34 PM	#98 (permalink)
*Sirbelch* Louder than 4 F404-GE-400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vacaville CA Age: 26 Posts: 4,047 Paul iTrader: 1 / 100%	one should get you to -1. I haven't used camber bolts because I have camber plates for the front. __________________ Waking up dead inside of my head will never never do, there is no med, no medicine to take. I've had a chance to be insane, asylum from the falling rain. I’ve had a chance to break.

01-23-2008, 11:53 PM	#83 (permalink)
27IVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 497 Jones iTrader: 0 / 0%	Yes I will get an alignment, do you think the car would handle worse than stock w/o a camber kit?

01-24-2008, 01:04 AM	#85 (permalink)
aki Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: tehインターウェブ Age: 28 Posts: 3,659 Resident Si Sedan Hater iTrader: 4 / 100%	Spring Testing - Eibach Springs at The Tire Rack. Lowering springs can improve handling, and the increased roll is offset by stiffer springs. I don't see a point to lower more than 1" though with just springs, in terms of performance. Whether the rear needs camber kit depends on how much your car got affected by the drop. On my car for example, they were able to knock off 1 degree of negative camber to the rear without a camber arm, from -2.7 to -1.7, which is within factory specs.

02-10-2008, 01:47 PM	#86 (permalink)
*BTRobertson* VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Age: 30 Posts: 496 B.T. Robertson iTrader: 0 / 0%	I've read through this entire sticky and there is a lot of subjective material strewn about, which isn't a bad thing, but I'm not sure if there's the right combo of parts/plans that pertain to me (unless I missed it, so forgive me if I did). Here's my "idea" (loosely defined idea, more specifically) - am I on the right track to better handling... Parts I'm looking at adding to a STOCK 2007 Sedan Si suspension: Eibach Sportline lowering springs - 1.4" drop F/R (though I hear it's less than that) Progress Rear Sway bar with new endlinks (the stock endlinks, I'm told, will break) Ingall's front camber bolt kit The reason I didn't want to add a front sway bar is because of HighRev1's awesome Suspension sticky, where I garnered some info regarding adding a rear only, or if you add both front and rear sways, make sure the rear one is larger/stiffer. 95% daily driver car, want better handling when I drive the back roads (which I do), and I will put better tires on it because HighRev1 is a huge fan of simply putting better tires on a car to improve handling. Are these three parts good for non-track, daily driving use - married with a better alignment, will it give me better handling? Thanks all!

02-10-2008, 07:03 PM	#88 (permalink)
*BTRobertson* VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Age: 30 Posts: 496 B.T. Robertson iTrader: 0 / 0%	Very true. I had to put snow tires on my car since I drive a decent distance to work (which is ending this week, thankfully) and winter is crap in Pittsburgh...and we have PennDOT. WOW!!! What a dramatic difference for the negative in the way my car handles now. I've done nothing on my car's stock suspension as of yet, but just the switching of the tires made it handle far worse - so your point is 100% valid (not that I doubted your tire statement, but I didn't realize just how much of a difference it made until my change). So yeah, Spring will find me with a much better handling car, me thinks... :)

02-12-2008, 04:32 AM	#90 (permalink)
ac2539 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Fremont, CA Age: 20 Posts: 1,011 iTrader: 3 / 100%	my rear camber is at -1.5 right now. I ordered a set of front camber bolts and i'll be getting a new alignment soon. ive read of many people on here setting more negative camber up front than in the rear, would it be LESS beneficial if i had both front and back set at -1.5 as opposed to having -1.5 up front and say...-1.0 in the rear?

02-12-2008, 07:43 AM	#91 (permalink)
*BTRobertson* VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Age: 30 Posts: 496 B.T. Robertson iTrader: 0 / 0%	It all depends on how you drive, it seems. :) But, I've heard that for the daily drivers among us, an even camber angle F and R would be best.

02-13-2008, 05:59 PM	#94 (permalink)
JEA86 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Glen Daniel WV Posts: 406 Jeremy iTrader: 14 / 100%	ok question this may sound dumb but i am dropping my Si on comptech springs and i have 1 set of SPC front camber bolts and a Set of SPC rear camber arms. Now my question is should i get another set of front bolts, i have read through the whole sticky and nobody has really said if it requires 1 or 2 sets

02-14-2008, 10:17 AM	#96 (permalink)
Ek37 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Age: 24 Posts: 117 iTrader: 2 / 100%	i just bought eibach sportlines, i dont want to buy the rear spc arms yet ($235 is too much) so from what i hear i am looking at -2.5 for the rear. i did get the ingalls camber bolts, what should i have them set to? would -1.0 be ok, i dont want premature or uneven tire wear in the front, but dont care about the back. what should i do? camber front: -.75 to -1.00 rear : -2.5 toe front: 0.00 rear: 0.00 does that sound okay? if not please post. thanks

02-14-2008, 03:33 PM	#100 (permalink)
Ek37 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Age: 24 Posts: 117 iTrader: 2 / 100%	seriously... this is getting too technical and over rated IMO. soon we will have to sport thongs to save weight and look cool not to mention satisfy others while driving with enthusiasm on the streets. "modding suspension to handle worst" that is way over rated...and i am getting sick now. i used to rock skunk 2 coilover sleeves with blown shocks car slammed to the ground where i would brake my oil pan on a manhole cover that wasnt even sticking out, i had no alighnment, no camber adjusted, and i was happy as hell driving the crap out of my 00 civic ex coupe. and now...everything's got to be this way or it doesn't work. geeeeeeez let's grow up, take some risks, and enjoy what we got instead of search for the perfect ride just to empty out our wallets on stupid cars. what is your strategy on ur savings accounts and retirement, or do you plan on living paycheck to paycheck for the rest of your life, paying mortgage for the next 30 years????? chances are you wont even make that last payment cuz you will crap out of some stupid disease,,,,, damn i sound like im flipping out but just speaking my mind here. i ask for advice and i get back completely irrelevant answers.