Important info for all those with aftermarket sways! - Page 10

**J-Ro** · 07-23-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtant21

Yes I know I could easily crawl underneath my car and measure it myself but can you (or anyone) give me an idea of how thick that stock mounting plate is on the civic? Also...whoever drew up the new stiffener plates...what thickness material are you planning on using? Also...how far from the outer edge is that bolt hole? That will make a difference.

I can run an FEA on the parts and give us a very good indication if all is well or not even with the fix. Just offering. Let me know. Thanks.

PM me if you want.

Sorrt, xtant, I didn't even see this until now

I'd say the mounting plate is probably 14GA steel (0.0747"). I'd be interested in seeing an FEA stress distribution model out of sheer curiosity. It would be interesting to compare stock vs. regular washers vs. Highrev's washers vs. welded washers. <-- IMO that is the order of strength, from worst to best.

*EDIT* Btw, MAD rep for you if you can do that. If you need any measurements or other help with the model, let me know. I've used ANSYS before, but no experience with anything else unfortunately.

***maiku*** · 07-23-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USDM-FG2

Holy Crap that sucks... Think you could use JB weld as well? Cause some of us dont have access to a welder

did you seriously just ask that... u_u*

***Highrev1*** · 07-23-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Ro

It would be interesting to compare stock vs. regular washers vs. Highrev's washers vs. welded washers. <-- IMO that is the order of strength, from worst to best.

LETS DO IT....I would be willing to test the 4 designs. I am certain mine would win...Why you ask. I have added extra material to the front side for additional strength

It won't make a difference to the mounting of the Endlink, all it will do is strengthen the bracekt more.

urbanj · 07-24-2007, 02:02 AM

i have no doubt that your product will outperform. unless the welds start breaking completely off. nothing against you but if the washers hold up id use them. if they dont, id be buying your product. you come from a track only background so i see the thought process you go through. good job and keep it up.

mysticdx · 07-24-2007, 03:06 AM

sorry for asking i don't know about this stuff. but dos this have to do with anti-roll bars?

Toxis · 07-24-2007, 03:24 AM

anti-roll bars = sway bars.

mysticdx · 07-24-2007, 03:30 AM

guess this will happen with eibach sway bars too?

Toxis · 07-24-2007, 03:48 AM

maybe...

***xtant21*** · 07-24-2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Ro

Sorrt, xtant, I didn't even see this until now

I'd say the mounting plate is probably 14GA steel (0.0747"). I'd be interested in seeing an FEA stress distribution model out of sheer curiosity. It would be interesting to compare stock vs. regular washers vs. Highrev's washers vs. welded washers. <-- IMO that is the order of strength, from worst to best.

*EDIT* Btw, MAD rep for you if you can do that. If you need any measurements or other help with the model, let me know. I've used ANSYS before, but no experience with anything else unfortunately.

I'll get crackin' on it today...if I need extra measurements I'll let you know. If we can...we might as well get this right on the first shot right?

***asdf0123*** · 07-24-2007, 09:30 AM

so this happened to a lot of people already?...doubt if i'll rock one now..

**J-Ro** · 07-24-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtant21

I'll get crackin' on it today...if I need extra measurements I'll let you know. If we can...we might as well get this right on the first shot right?

Definitely :)
The main issue I see is accurately modeling the forces involved, and how far to take the model, i.e. do you include just the bracket in the model, or do you include other things, such as the endlink, LCA, swaybar, etc.
I would think that you would want to include the lower bolt of the endlink, since that is causing a force and a torque. Consequently, I would think that you would want to include the LCA, or at least constrain the bracket where it would connect to the LCA.
The tough part with this is that there are a lot of irregular shapes and oblique forces that need to be taken into account. My last concern is how do we actually come up with a number for the force on the bracket?

[/thinking out loud]

***xtant21*** · 07-24-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Ro

Definitely :)
The main issue I see is accurately modeling the forces involved, and how far to take the model, i.e. do you include just the bracket in the model, or do you include other things, such as the endlink, LCA, swaybar, etc.
I would think that you would want to include the lower bolt of the endlink, since that is causing a force and a torque. Consequently, I would think that you would want to include the LCA, or at least constrain the bracket where it would connect to the LCA.
The tough part with this is that there are a lot of irregular shapes and oblique forces that need to be taken into account. My last concern is how do we actually come up with a number for the force on the bracket?

[/thinking out loud]

Well...first off...all VERY good points

and good thinking. I don't intend this to be a 2-hour turnaround on the answer. I will gradually keep you up to date with each step.

Intially I see just testing the bracket for a baseline of what the metal *should* endure with the position of all of the bolt holes.

Next would be to do it all over again in the assembly (i.e. the LCA and other parts to really simulate what is going on here).

I've done a good amount of FEA analysis before so I should be ok to give us a decent answer on this; however, to ease the fears that my skills might come short...I have in house 2 FEA gurus that do nothing all day long but test the forces/stress/strain etc... on sub-oceanic ROVs all day long. I'm pretty sure we can get a *good* number.

CZ-75 · 07-24-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysticdx

guess this will happen with eibach sway bars too?

http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/tantiswa.htm

Depends on how much thicker the replacement is over OEM. Rule of thumb I've heard is 80% is around the most you should go. If Eibach brings out a 20mm bar, then you're pretty good.

**J-Ro** · 07-24-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtant21

Well...first off...all VERY good points

and good thinking. I don't intend this to be a 2-hour turnaround on the answer. I will gradually keep you up to date with each step.

Intially I see just testing the bracket for a baseline of what the metal *should* endure with the position of all of the bolt holes.

Next would be to do it all over again in the assembly (i.e. the LCA and other parts to really simulate what is going on here).

I've done a good amount of FEA analysis before so I should be ok to give us a decent answer on this; however, to ease the fears that my skills might come short...I have in house 2 FEA gurus that do nothing all day long but test the forces/stress/strain etc... on sub-oceanic ROVs all day long. I'm pretty sure we can get a *good* number.

Sweet! You definitely sound like you know what you're doing then! I can't wait!

SpeedDemon · 08-26-2007, 10:37 PM

Thanks for the heads up with the thread.

Was about to buy a sway bar, but till this issue is cleared out, i wont.

**J-Ro** · 08-27-2007, 08:45 AM

^ Your best bet is probably to wait and see how Highrev's reinforcement brackets work out.

***07mugencivic*** · 08-27-2007, 08:49 AM

aki · 09-19-2007, 02:47 PM

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...&page_number=4

Digging up an old thread, but I was reading TOV's Project Si articles and their rear sway did snap off while tracking at Willow Springs too. Supposed to be a vid, but can't find it.

Forklift352 · 09-19-2007, 07:18 PM

cant one just weld a washer to it and call it good?
Never mind went back read more

View Poll Results: Has this happened to you? (Only vote if you fall into the following categories)
Yes, with a Progress rear sway bar	9	5.36%
Yes, with another aftermarket rear sway bar	1	0.60%
No, but my stock end links broke	9	5.36%
It won't ever happen to me because this thread really scared me!	149	88.69%
Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll

07-24-2007, 02:02 AM	#184 (permalink)
urbanj Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 14 iTrader: 0 / 0%	i have no doubt that your product will outperform. unless the welds start breaking completely off. nothing against you but if the washers hold up id use them. if they dont, id be buying your product. you come from a track only background so i see the thought process you go through. good job and keep it up.

07-24-2007, 03:06 AM	#185 (permalink)
mysticdx Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: louisiana Age: 28 Posts: 224 Andre iTrader: 0 / 0%	sorry for asking i don't know about this stuff. but dos this have to do with anti-roll bars?

07-24-2007, 03:24 AM	#186 (permalink)
Toxis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Italy Of Course! Age: 28 Posts: 3,731 Even Women Aren't Safe iTrader: 10 / 100%	anti-roll bars = sway bars.

07-24-2007, 03:30 AM	#187 (permalink)
mysticdx Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: louisiana Age: 28 Posts: 224 Andre iTrader: 0 / 0%	guess this will happen with eibach sway bars too?

07-24-2007, 03:48 AM	#188 (permalink)
Toxis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Italy Of Course! Age: 28 Posts: 3,731 Even Women Aren't Safe iTrader: 10 / 100%	maybe...

07-24-2007, 09:30 AM	#190 (permalink)
*asdf0123* What Honda intended Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: kaNsas Posts: 3,879 JamEs iTrader: 4 / 100%	so this happened to a lot of people already?...doubt if i'll rock one now..

08-26-2007, 10:37 PM	#195 (permalink)
SpeedDemon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Miami Baby! Posts: 2,815 iTrader: 5 / 100%	Thanks for the heads up with the thread. Was about to buy a sway bar, but till this issue is cleared out, i wont.

08-27-2007, 08:49 AM	#197 (permalink)
*07mugencivic* Whos The Whore NOW Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Southern CA Age: 23 Posts: 60,213 Tony iTrader: 3 / 100%

09-19-2007, 02:47 PM	#198 (permalink)
aki Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: tehインターウェブ Age: 28 Posts: 3,659 Resident Si Sedan Hater iTrader: 4 / 100%	http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...&page_number=4 Digging up an old thread, but I was reading TOV's Project Si articles and their rear sway did snap off while tracking at Willow Springs too. Supposed to be a vid, but can't find it.

09-19-2007, 07:18 PM	#199 (permalink)
Forklift352 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Salem Or. Posts: 392 Daniel iTrader: 0 / 0%	cant one just weld a washer to it and call it good? Never mind went back read more

09-24-2007, 05:54 PM	#200 (permalink)
J-Ro Slave to the corporation