Whats your car doing now???

[Highrev1]

In order to make the proper decions on what parts you put on your car you need to be able to tell what your car is doing now. Just by saying oh it doesn't handle well says NOTHING. You need to be specific, the car is understeering, over steering or what ever, It also depends where in the turn you are, Entry, mid corner, Exit. Also you need to include what you as a driver are inputing into the car, are you on the brakes are you on the gas, are you at full lock on the steering wheel? The more information you give the better your car will get tuned.

“Your trying to tune your suspension, and in order to do that you need to objectively look at how the car is handling, and what you as a driver are doing to cause the car to handle this way. Now so you can best determine what else may need to change to make the car have the potenial to turn better. I say potential, because after all the driver will always be the greatest influence in how a given car handles.”

If you really want to handle better then you need to acutally tune the cars suspension. This is a time consuming process, knowing what you are causing your car to do now and then figuring out a way to fix your driving and a part that may help.

Understeer- Ok, 99% of the time, Throttle on Understeer = Driver error. If you add in too much throttle as you exit the turn it will be instantly noticeable, as the nose will start to push or wash out (head away from where you want to go). To correct for this, simply reduce the throttle a bit. DOn't add more steering input that is wrong thing to do. Other wise, cureing understeer as a driver is very easy. Simply do less of what you are allready doing. if your turning, ease off the steering input. If your brakeing, ease off the brake. If your on the throttle, ease off the throttle....



Oversteer- If you find the car starting to oversteer in any part of the turn, absolutly DO NOT HIT THE BRAKES OR LIFT OFF THE THROTTLE, as both of these actions will just make the oversteer worse. Instead do somethign that will help, like add in more throttle (it transfers weight to the rear which increases the amount of grip there) This goes back to the Roll couple distribution of the car. The stiffer end loses traction first.



“Easiest way to look at this is a tire can only make 100% traction, and this traction can be split between Accelerating, Brakeing Or turning. So, when you are turning and using 100% of the tires traction to turn... and then you start to apply throttle. Well then a portion of that traction being used to turn is going to start to be used for acceleration. So now you have 60-70% of your traction trying to make the car turn and 30-40% of your traction trying to accelerate the car. You see the problem here?

So this is what you do, and how it was origially explained to me. Your steering wheel controls how much throttle you can use at any point in a turn. The more it is turned away from dead center, the less throttle you can apply. Your Turn sequence should go something like this.

1. approching the turn, Full brake. (in a straight line)
2. As you start to turn in, you should be finishing up your brakeing and comeing off the brakes, trail braking will come later.
3. Once you've finished turning in there will probably be a point where you are neither on the brake or gas, or maybee just slightly on the gas.
4. As you start to exit the turn and unwind the steering wheel you slowly Squeeze the throttle. Adding in more and more throttle untill the steering wheel is straight and you've got the car floored.”

[Sirbelch]

Are you on a personal quest to get everyone to handle better? This is like your 6 handling thread. Your not trying to start a cult with your preachy ways are you? hahahahahah. Seriously its good info for the non informed.

[Highrev1]

I like you I don't want to have to - rep you Yeah my 6th and I get shit in everyone of them, not form U :)

LOL...No I am not on a quest or trying to be preachy. I just want to educate, and educated consumer is a good consumer, cause in the long run there will be less returns and everyone will be happier.

[8thgenuser]

HighRev1 is a very informed individual. As a vendor, I'm sure he gets clients coming into his shop all the time saying they want their car to handle better. Well, there are lots of ways to make your car handle better. I could tell you that you can either lower or raise the pressure in your tires. That would certainly change the way your car handles, but that may not address your specific driving wants/needs. He's really making a concerted effort here to tailor your needs by really trying to figure out what you really want from your car. You won't be able to effectively tell him (nor any other vendor) what you want unless you are educated and versed in this area.

HighRev, you're doing a great job.

[2000civic]

[Highrev1]

Not doing this as a vendor, doing this to try to educate the Forum

For the H8ters Its cool theres always a bunch and now I am The h8ters can all go **** themselves.

[Zeuceone]

good info.

[Sirbelch]

So you doing this to help lower the amount of returns you get has nothing to do with you being a vendor? hahahahahahahhahahah!!!! im jus messin.

I thought the disclamer on the bottom was the funnest part even though you did it to be serious.

[Cr8tive_leo]

Isn't that what people learn in driving school? I did, it's awesome information, good post!

Props!

[lonelydriver]

great stuff...

I can now tell my friends to look at your threads rather than me explaining it and getting a confused look

[Highrev1]

THanks guys i will keep trying with the posts, rather inform then try to push a LESS than superior product. AND As long as the A$$holes stay away I will continue.

[Sirbelch]

what would you recomend for a cheap set up, say under 1000? I'm set with my suspension, but i was thinking it could help others out.

[Excalibur]

Great expaination.

[Toxis]

Great write up! Repped for a vendor who knows more than model numbers...

[RedShiftChris]

A thought...... A fwd car will always be setup to understeer from the factory. But a fwd car is fastest when it's oversteering a bit in steady state corners. Why?? Because being on the throttle is part of what makes you fast in any racing (road racing and autocrossing is no different), and once you get on the throttle in a FWD car, the front grip changes.

The key is to make the rear tires work hard, but not to overdo it. Your life, and the life of others, is on the line. The best handling fwd cars are downright dangerous on the streets. This is why giving someone advice on handling for any car, especially a fwd car, is so tricky. If we are selling a suspension to someone that is a very good driver, then that's one thing. But we can get a customer in VERY big trouble with a "dope" suspension setup that he's heard about somewhere.

So, my recommendation is to know what you are doing before you go beyond a standard street setup. And always recognize that the fast you are travelling, the more a car will oversteer. So, while a 30 mph city turn will feel great, a 70 mph off ramp in the same car can be dangerous.

Keep on maxin' those slip angles!!! :)
Chris at RedShift

[Highrev1]

Reccomendation...well proper suspension tuning is best done one part at a time. With that said people tend to reccomend what they have or what they've heard is "best" rather then give any sort of usefull info. So be picky as to who you take your advice from. EVEN ME I am heavily biased towards a race oriented setup. Also unless you have ALOT of seat time I would start there, start with the driver. With that said this

1. Tires
2. Proper alignment (not an OEM one!)
3. Dampers
4. Springs
5. Anti-roll bar or bars, depending on your springs.

[bluetroll]

i keep rep'n u... u give such good information!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Highrev1 again.

i guess i'm can't give u rep... but thanks for the info anyway!

[Highrev1]

^^Thanks Sorry for WHORING up your HFP thread

[RedShiftChris]

My order of what to do on a street car would be this:
1) Alignment
2) Anti-Sway Bars (rear only on a FWD usually)
3) Shocks
4) Springs
5) Tires (assuming the ones on the car aren't junk, you can save these until last I think). A well setup car with decent tires will walk all over a stock car on the best tires (other than race tires).

How do I spread Reputation around this joint??? :) I hear highrev1 doesn't just give good information.... he gives good something else too...... haha

Chris at RedShift

[Punting_midgets]

Great information!