Suspension Variables And Definitions

[JeShUa]

For my use, tein basics are perfect. :]
Sitting low, yet isn't too bouncy or too stiff :].

[TronSteez]

just from what i've heard so far the best option out as of now are HFP, wich is not surprising considering that they did design the car and I am confident in their engineering capabilitys, the only reservation that could be made might be that the HFPz being sold by an oem manufacture might be fairly conservitive and not "harcore" enogh for some. outside of this forum I have heard that teins are poop, so maybe teins are not the best yardsick to measure the HFPz to. I am just going to sit on the sidelines until there are a multitude of options and all have had a chance to show their strengths/weeknesses, seeing as I am a student and do not have the budget to do some of the trials for my own I thank all of you that do have the funds to get out there and try stuff out and appriciate the info.

[Highrev1]

Originally Posted by TronSteez

just from what i've heard so far the best option out as of now are HFP,

outside of this forum I have heard that teins are poop,

seeing as I am a student and do not have the budget to do some of the trials for my own I thank all of you that do have the funds to get out there and try stuff out and appriciate the info.

Unless you are willing to wait and order a truly custom setup, I would agree the HFP is a better option than most right now.

TEINS SUCK/

Testing different suspenions is important, ALthough many people will just suggest what they have or what they think or hear is good. Many don't really truly know what is a good setup and what is not. So be carfeul who you take advice from, and whcih reviews of the products you read.

[FGbleach.]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Unless you are willing to wait and order a truly custom setup, I would agree the HFP is a better option than most right now.

TEINS SUCK/

Testing different suspenions is important, ALthough many people will just suggest what they have or what they think or hear is good. Many don't really truly know what is a good setup and what is not. So be carfeul who you take advice from, and whcih reviews of the products you read.

i've had the teins ss on my previous car. absolutely loved them. great ride and they were adjustable. you definitey get a good product with tein.
why do they suck???

on my si right now, hfp's. good price for what i wanted. the drop is minimal but still noticeable. the ride is pretty good, a little discomfort around bumps and holes.

in my opinion, i would have gone with the teins if i had more money
but i'm happy with the hfp's.

[Highrev1]

Ok I am not trying to argue but I am a racer, and for acutal performance not perceived performance TEINS are NOT GOOD IMO...I want real adjustment not one knob that does two things that will always be a compromise...Read the STICKY that you are posting and you will find out why I KNOW THEY SUCK ASS...





Why am I in such dislike of any of the “pre-built coilovers? Dampers and Valving!!!!

“With all of the items that come with your coilovers the damper is the most expensive part that comes with the kit. A lot of companies promote the # of adjustment "clicks" on their dampers as a feature, with out posting a dynograph of the adjustment range of that damper.... well its time to start questioning why. Because "32 way adjustible" really tells me squat about the damper other then it is suposidly adjustible. It doesnt tell me what gets adjusted, it doesnt tell me the range in which those things get adjusted in. in order to lower costs, they end up using dampers of a more primitive design. you'll notice that most if not all use dampers that adjust both their bump valving and rebound valving with one knob. There's a reason for this, as dampers of this sort are easier to design and manufactur (theres only one set of Valve stacks that need to be turned with the adjuster, Vs ones where you only adjust rebound that have two sets of valve stacks, one that gets alterd by the adjustment knob and one that doesnt). Great for the company as they can sell their "coilovers" for less, bad for tuners because you now have an inferior damper. Also valving adjustment range tends to be very limited with the "cheep" coilovers.

In the whole, why would some one want a single adjustible damper to only adjust Rebound rather then Bump and rebound at the same time... well, that deals more with ride quality and how the car reacts to rough surfaces and impacts. See, bump valving has a much bigger influence on how the car reacts to impacts then rebound... It could be said that stiffer bump valving sort of Fakes a higher spring rate. The problem with that is, since they have the side effect of "faking" a stiffer spring, you are also "faking" a higher suspension frequency.... meaning the car will have less traction over bumps and rough surfaces. With a damper that adjusts bump and rebound at the same time, you end up running in to an issue of "I need stiffer valving to get the car to handle and respond the way I want, but I cant run to high of a bump valving with out making the car unstable in turns that arnt perfectly smooth"

[FGbleach.]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Ok I am not trying to argue but I am a racer, and for acutal performance not perceived performance TEINS are NOT GOOD IMO...I want real adjustment not one knob that does two things that will always be a compromise...Read the STICKY that you are posting and you will find out why I KNOW THEY SUCK ASS...





Why am I in such dislike of any of the “pre-built coilovers? Dampers and Valving!!!!

“With all of the items that come with your coilovers the damper is the most expensive part that comes with the kit. A lot of companies promote the # of adjustment "clicks" on their dampers as a feature, with out posting a dynograph of the adjustment range of that damper.... well its time to start questioning why. Because "32 way adjustible" really tells me squat about the damper other then it is suposidly adjustible. It doesnt tell me what gets adjusted, it doesnt tell me the range in which those things get adjusted in. in order to lower costs, they end up using dampers of a more primitive design. you'll notice that most if not all use dampers that adjust both their bump valving and rebound valving with one knob. There's a reason for this, as dampers of this sort are easier to design and manufactur (theres only one set of Valve stacks that need to be turned with the adjuster, Vs ones where you only adjust rebound that have two sets of valve stacks, one that gets alterd by the adjustment knob and one that doesnt). Great for the company as they can sell their "coilovers" for less, bad for tuners because you now have an inferior damper. Also valving adjustment range tends to be very limited with the "cheep" coilovers.

In the whole, why would some one want a single adjustible damper to only adjust Rebound rather then Bump and rebound at the same time... well, that deals more with ride quality and how the car reacts to rough surfaces and impacts. See, bump valving has a much bigger influence on how the car reacts to impacts then rebound... It could be said that stiffer bump valving sort of Fakes a higher spring rate. The problem with that is, since they have the side effect of "faking" a stiffer spring, you are also "faking" a higher suspension frequency.... meaning the car will have less traction over bumps and rough surfaces. With a damper that adjusts bump and rebound at the same time, you end up running in to an issue of "I need stiffer valving to get the car to handle and respond the way I want, but I cant run to high of a bump valving with out making the car unstable in turns that arnt perfectly smooth"

i guess this topic is over my head.
my si is my daily driver, nothing more, nothing less. the hfp's work for me.
my opinion of tein is that they are a good product as well. cant say nothing more.

[Highrev1]

....But you CAN say more read and learn why they acutally AREN"T a good product

[JeShUa]

The TEIN coilovers suit my needs. Maybe when I build my em1, I'll opt for sleeved adjustable springs and adjustable dampers. :]
Haha.. a little off topic but what would you recommend for that?

[Kelly.J]

this topic is getting too serious.. omg!

I don't wanna argue but most of products are for public not for trak..

serious racers?
who is gonna use massively produced (in a factory) items for their car and for trak?

rather ask certain manufacter (who would like to be real sponser) for making customised set than equip the pubic ones.


IMO, for streets, for daily driving and for whatever reasons (on the street),
most of products out there are all good products.

street races? different story and don't even wanna know about them anymore..(no offense, also used to be a racer, myself)




ANYWAY..
I think, so far now, no one beats HFP kits yet...



I'm gonna put HFP again and.. wait for some products for a while.

[TronSteez]

+1 for HFP lol

[Sirbelch]

Sooooo, I’ll give my opinion now on teins as I have the most experience with them on our cars.

Tein SS: Good for the street. Not stiff at all, according to what my butt says. The springs are only 50% stiffer than stock. So, at full soft, it feels just a tiny bit stiffer than stock. The SS actually make the car push more at the limit than stock, although those limits are higher. So you it makes you think they handle better when in reality they have done nothing to change the balance of the car for the good. I feel that the SS do not have enough low speed damping. Low speed damping comes in to play when you are truing. More low speed damping will help resist body roll in a corner and will help in quick transitioning (like a left right left complex). Also, I feel there is too much high speed damping which effects how it rides. The big bumps all felt the same at full soft or full stiff. Mid speed damping is where the adjustments are. So making stiffer only increasing mid corner grip but doesn't help on entry or exit. Also making it stiffer makes all the little and medium bumps feel a lot bigger than they are. I had SS for a year. The older they got, the more squeaks, rattles and pops they made. I even rechecked all the nuts and bolts and they were just as tight on day 365 as day 1.

Tein Flex: Much stiffer ride. Springs are 120% stiffer than stock. You feel every bump and the big ones will compress the spine. They have a better damper than the SS. More low speed damping and less high speed damping with about the same mid speed damping. Limits are much higher than SS and stock. On ramps are super fun, especially the 2 lane ones where you can blow buy people. The Flex's rotate just a much as stock does if you set the front and rear at the same click. If you increase rear stiffness, it does get a little more rotation out of it. Full stiff is wicked rough on the Nor Cal streets I drive on (So Cal gets all the “fix the street money,” which still doesn’t help them out too much). People in the back seat will hit their head on the roof on almost all bumps. I’ve had them for 4 and a half months and in month 3 all four dampers broke within a day of each other. They make a sound of escaping gas every time they compress and its only getting worse as time goes on. All so the ride is getting rougher and the number of cycles it takes to return to normal after hitting a bump is increasing. I have to send them back to get them rebuilt. 3 effing months and they all break. That is some top notch quality right there. The good news is I will get to sell them at an almost new price because they will be rebuilt like new.

This is why I am getting the RSM coilovers. Koni dampers and GC springs. Can’t wait.

[Kelly.J]

Originally Posted by Sirbelch

Sooooo, I’ll give my opinion now on teins as I have the most experience with them on our cars.

Tein SS: Good for the street. Not stiff at all, according to what my butt says. The springs are only 50% stiffer than stock. So, at full soft, it feels just a tiny bit stiffer than stock. The SS actually make the car push more at the limit than stock, although those limits are higher. So you it makes you think they handle better when in reality they have done nothing to change the balance of the car for the good. I feel that the SS do not have enough low speed damping. Low speed damping comes in to play when you are truing. More low speed damping will help resist body roll in a corner and will help in quick transitioning (like a left right left complex). Also, I feel there is too much high speed damping which effects how it rides. The big bumps all felt the same at full soft or full stiff. Mid speed damping is where the adjustments are. So making stiffer only increasing mid corner grip but doesn't help on entry or exit. Also making it stiffer makes all the little and medium bumps feel a lot bigger than they are. I had SS for a year. The older they got, the more squeaks, rattles and pops they made. I even rechecked all the nuts and bolts and they were just as tight on day 365 as day 1.

Tein Flex: Much stiffer ride. Springs are 120% stiffer than stock. You feel every bump and the big ones will compress the spine. They have a better damper than the SS. More low speed damping and less high speed damping with about the same mid speed damping. Limits are much higher than SS and stock. On ramps are super fun, especially the 2 lane ones where you can blow buy people. The Flex's rotate just a much as stock does if you set the front and rear at the same click. If you increase rear stiffness, it does get a little more rotation out of it. Full stiff is wicked rough on the Nor Cal streets I drive on (So Cal gets all the “fix the street money,” which still doesn’t help them out too much). People in the back seat will hit their head on the roof on almost all bumps. I’ve had them for 4 and a half months and in month 3 all four dampers broke within a day of each other. They make a sound of escaping gas every time they compress and its only getting worse as time goes on. All so the ride is getting rougher and the number of cycles it takes to return to normal after hitting a bump is increasing. I have to send them back to get them rebuilt. 3 effing months and they all break. That is some top notch quality right there. The good news is I will get to sell them at an almost new price because they will be rebuilt like new.

This is why I am getting the RSM coilovers. Koni dampers and GC springs. Can’t wait.

thanks for the info

I'd better go back to HFP for a while,
and gonna try other shot than Teins.


oh.. I'm curious about FSD shocks(Koni)
anyone experienced FSD yet?

they explained some on their site but.. it's all commercail-like words so..lol

[Highrev1]

FSD's aren't out yet for the FG's, although they are supposed to be the best compromise between sport and comfort.

[TronSteez]

haha compromise............

[tommyroo]

Do I understand this right? Adjusting my camber and toe would make my car handle better then upgrading my stock suspension.

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by tommyroo

Do I understand this right? Adjusting my camber and toe would make my car handle better then upgrading my stock suspension.

Well sort of. The stock suspension (any for that matter) won't realize its full potential unless there is a good alignment under it. You spend 2000 on a suspesion and then put the stock alignment on it, it will still push at the limit just like stock does, the only difference is the limits will be higher. The tires are the only thing touching the road, so which way the tires are pointing or angled when they touch that road makes a big difference. Plus, its a cheap upgrade. You could get adjustable camber at all 4 corners for less than 300 bucks.

[usakicksass]

Damn that was good stuff. Not just the meat but personal commentary as well. What do you do for a living?

[Highrev1]

Me I own a resturant...SirBelch is a nurse sort of

[Sirbelch]

I'm going to school to be a nurse but i am a sterile processing and distierbution tech at a local hospital. I clean and sterilize OR insturments

[Redleg06Si]

Damn....and I was almost sold on Tein Basic for a mild setup......what about investing in the HFP and putting S Techs on the shocks? Main concern is creaking, popping, etc....and of course blowng out the dampers. Looking for an aggressive NA build. Mods include CAI, DCRH, EVO2, possibly putting a stage 2 clutch in. Is the Si Suspension really that bad....want more control and a lower ride. Appreciate the help