Suspension Variables And Definitions

[yuning83]

I'm seeking expert help on suspension.

You know I used to drive mid-size sedans all the time. The newer civic is actually my first compact. And I'm not into trying to be fast in straight line or turns. When I switched over to the Civic, I noticed a major shift in ride comfort. With my older cars, I could felt the bumps when I drive over then, but in a smooth fashion, not so much as getting shaked in the Civic over the same bump. I have read bouch of stuff about this, and I'm not really trying to get my civic into the same comfort zone as my mid-size. But I would really like someone who's an expert in this field explaining to me why such a differece, and what's causing the difference.

Thanks

[LucasBlack]

Originally Posted by yuning83

I'm seeking expert help on suspension.

You know I used to drive mid-size sedans all the time. The newer civic is actually my first compact. And I'm not into trying to be fast in straight line or turns. When I switched over to the Civic, I noticed a major shift in ride comfort. With my older cars, I could felt the bumps when I drive over then, but in a smooth fashion, not so much as getting shaked in the Civic over the same bump. I have read bouch of stuff about this, and I'm not really trying to get my civic into the same comfort zone as my mid-size. But I would really like someone who's an expert in this field explaining to me why such a differece, and what's causing the difference.

Thanks

i'll try to take a stab at this one:
mid-size sedans are typically regarded more as a casual family car, and therefore the suspension is setup/tuned to provide a soft, "easy-going" kind of ride.

the civic, even the non-si, especially more recently, has been setup to provide a more "active" feel in the suspension, alongside the fact that it most likely weighs at least a few hundreds pounds less than the mid-size sedan you're used to. less weight is typically easier to "upset", and it will take less of a disturbance (bump in the road) to disrupt its balance/ride.

therefore: if you were to attempt to make your civic have a ride closer to that of a mid-size sedan, then you would need to get shocks/dampers that are valved even less "aggressively" than stock (softer or less reactive), and possibly get springs that have a lower spring rate.

that and the fact that the civic might be running lower profile tires than a mid-size sedan, which therefore will absorb less shocks and bumps from the road.

[mbringle]

Your spring to unspring mass is also a big contributer to ride smoothness. Since Civics are so light all that unspring mass adds up. Some things you could do:
1) Lower your tire pressure
2) Get lighter rims
3) Running higher profile tires with a smaller rim diameter
4) Replace your shocks with 'less sporty' ones
5) Add a bag of sand to the trunk

[blue1]

Originally Posted by mbringle

Your spring to unspring mass is also a big contributer to ride smoothness. Since Civics are so light all that unspring mass adds up. Some things you could do:
1) Lower your tire pressure
2) Get lighter rims
3) Running higher profile tires with a smaller rim diameter
4) Replace your shocks with 'less sporty' ones
5) Add a bag of sand to the trunk

You are the first person that I have heard mention that this generation of Civics are light. I don't think that they are a boat, but they are pretty darn heavy as is.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by mbringle

Your spring to unspring mass is also a big contributer to ride smoothness.

So far you're making sense...

Originally Posted by mbringle

Since Civics are so light

...And now you're not.

Originally Posted by mbringle

Some things you could do:
1) Lower your tire pressure
2) Get lighter rims
3) Running higher profile tires with a smaller rim diameter
4) Replace your shocks with 'less sporty' ones
5) Add a bag of sand to the trunk

1. Not good.
2. Good.
3. Better
4. Best.
5. Not good.

The Si has a lot of high speed shock damping meaning it is stiff when encountering harsh impacts like bumps and dips. If the ride quality is such an issue, I'd consider the OEM LX Coupe (SVA) struts and shocks. They're softer in the high speed valving, meaning they will offer a smoother ride over irregularities, but their low speed valving (for handling) is not much softer than the OEM Si Coupe (SVB) valving to really degrade from the "sporty" characteristics of the chassis.

Yuning83, if you're interested in trying the LX dampers, I have the front LX struts sitting in boxes in my garage, we could do an even trade because I'd like the Si fronts. Then, all you'd have to do is buy LX rears and that'll set you back maybe $110 for the pair. Let me know.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[mbringle]

Didn't say they were all "Good" ideas. They were just ways to effect the feel. I didn't know lowering the tire pressure was all that bad. Its all about not overdoing it. In rain you lower you pressuer some than when you normally run on a dry track. I"m talking 30PSI instead of 32PSI. And who knows what pressure his are at. I have seen shops put them at 40 cus that is what it says on the side of the tire. The sand in the back, being last on the list for a reason, does work just not a long term solution.

[yuning83]

Ok one more question. Despite the fact that our Civic "feels" the bump more than the mid-size sedan, are all cars subjected to getting "bumped" out of the alignment at the same rate? Or is more sporty type of suspension are more vanulable to the misalignment?

Honda93, thanks for the offer. Actually I'm looking into be more sporty since this is the first car that I ever owned that is sportier than the ones that i have driven. Looking for something different, but I was just not sure about why these Civic are really "hard" on the tough roads. I have already installed HFP suspension on my car and took it to the dealership for alignment just to be sure, and they said it was out of alignment and the car only had 14k miles on at the time. I have never done any alignment this fast on the previous mid-size sedans. So it made me worry a bit, because I know HFP supposed to be more sporty and if what I mentioned earlier is true, then it might not have been a good thing for me to drive around with.

Anyway, I'm just kind of concern with 2 things.

1. Civic are just "harder" on these roads with bumps, and it's normal. (from reading up stuff, it seems it is normal)

2. Sporty suspension are easier to get misaligned because of the the way they react to tougher road. (still not sure about this one, someone help me understand)

Thanks

[mbringle]

Originally Posted by blueroadster

You are the first person that I have heard mention that this generation of Civics are light. I don't think that they are a boat, but they are pretty darn heavy as is.

Well light compared to his previous car. Light compared to my 3800lb Supra. And pretty light compared to other cars out there today. Not on the extreme end, but I look at anything under 3000k as light.

[The Stig]

Please bear with me. I'm not a racer but I like sprited driving. I have a JDM Civic 1.8 Sedan. I can drive up to 200 kph in my stock car on a bumpy concrete highway with no problem. I installed Tein S techs last month to improve looks and handling without losing too much on comfort. Problem is, ride is horrible at high speeds on the bumpy concrete highway. I need your suggestions.

[Highrev1]

Horrible how? Now its just bouncing down the road?

How many miles on your car not kilometers please translate to milage

My first though is that Your car is under dampened...

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Horrible how? Now its just bouncing down the road?

How many miles on your car not kilometers please translate to milage

My first though is that Your car is under dampened...

There's this highway, south of Manila, Philippines. Several types of road surface can be found on different sections of this highway: smooth concrete, rough concrete, bumpy concrete, smooth asphalt, wavy asphalt... On bumpy concrete the car bounces a lot at about 100 mph. And on the point where the concrete meets the asphalted bridges, where the asphalt is not as flat as the concrete, the struts tend to bottom out on the approaches and landings. ...with a loud THUD! ...strong enough to shake the coins in the car.

My Civic is 1 year old with just 5592 miles on it. I can live with it. Just can't push the car to top speed like I use to with stock springs though.

I'm considering the following options: 1. Shaving the bump stop. 2. Replacing the struts with aftermarket ones.

Thanks very much for your time.

[Highrev1]

^By changing the stroke range you are changing the way the damper acutally handles, also how long have you had your lowering springs, your dampers could easily be starting to go if they have been on for a while.


I would not bother cutting the bump stops, think of that like a band-aid to help/solve your problems, I would just expect getting a better set of dampers as the proper solution.

[The Stig]

Thanks for the advice. Oh, and the springs are relatively new. I've had the Teins for just a month.

[JeShUa]

Installed my camber kits, and I take my car to pep boys and they dont want to align my car w/ camber up front.. :x.. idk where to go now :[.

[TronSteez]

are you the almighty stig? where is your white suit and misteryous identety hiding helmet?

[LucasBlack]

Originally Posted by JeShUa

Installed my camber kits, and I take my car to pep boys and they dont want to align my car w/ camber up front.. :x.. idk where to go now :[.

its possible it might be a liability thing....
on my last car when i wanted to dial in some neg. camber i had to basically hang out with the alignment guy so that he felt more comfortable with doing what i was asking him to do.
and as far as reasoning for the front desk guy, i said that i was getting adverse (poor) tire wear and felt that neg. camber would help offset that.
i got all this done at NTB...and only there cuz i bought the alignments for three years thing....has worked out to be a pretty good deal actually, i've had about 4 alignments so far, and i still have at least a year left on it.

[Ci_Vic]

quoted from 'cation' in a different post about dropping my civic:

Just remember, to do it right, you need to match your damper to your spring rate...

So my question is:

If I go with the HFP suspension for my FA5 and I'm not completely satisfied with the drop, which springs would be good to match the HFP dampers and give me a 1.25-1.5" drop?

[Sirbelch]

Originally Posted by Ci_Vic

quoted from 'cation' in a different post about dropping my civic:

Just remember, to do it right, you need to match your damper to your spring rate...

So my question is:

If I go with the HFP suspension for my FA5 and I'm not completely satisfied with the drop, which springs would be good to match the HFP dampers and give me a 1.25-1.5" drop?

I don't know if anyone would know that, unless they knew the spring rate for the HFP suspension. If someone did, then it would be just a matter of getting the spring with the same rate as the HFP.

[Kelly.J]

dunno about spring rate but..
H&R sports springs gave me a great look(2dr).

not stiff as HFP..so there was rubbing issue(front tires - fender).
I used to have 18" rims(7.5j), tires(225-40-18).

after I got H&Rs installed, worse cornering and handling than HFP itself.
I don't think it matched well.. just except for looking.

looking was the only thing that I really loved.




---just a piece of info.

[TronSteez]

^ good info thanks I just might pick the HFP's - if I am understanding you correctly you liked the ride but they just wern't low enough for you right?