New brake pads and rotors?

[slynx]

My ex sedan is at 18k right now and im noticing that my brakes are giving out. I haven't checked them yet as i don't know how, but I wanna buy new brake pads. I was thinking since im buying new pads that I should get new rotors too cuz mine are rusting. I was looking at these http://www.brakedesigns.com/product....at=3643&page=1 and am itching to get them, but I don't wanna waste money. So im wondering how aftermarket brake rotors are better than oem?

[07mugencivic]

i think your rotors are fine all you need is some brake pad...i had my honda rotor for 8 years until i replace them....so i think your good.....but its a nice upgrade...

[slynx]

will upgrading the rotors like having them drilled and slotted do anything for performance?

[07mugencivic]

Originally Posted by slynx

will upgrading the rotors like having them drilled and slotted do anything for performance?

I dont think so......but it will look a lot nicer

[slynx]

lol okay thanks a lot!

[Jay Kincannon]

I have the BDI rotors (front & rear) double drilled and slotted w/ zinc coating with Axxis Ultimate pads on my EX Coupe. So far, it is the best upgrade I have done by far. Im not trying to say it's F1 quality, but WOW what a difference. Plus, they do look great behind my HFP's. FYI they cost me $244 shipped, all from BDI. These guys have an awesome product. Each rotor is machined by them from blank rotors. That is truly a custom part and they seem to care about their customers.

[slynx]

ooo i think im gonna get those next.

[cappykd]

Yup I was the first guy sporting brake designs rotors/pad combo on my SI. Jon is a great guy. In fact, I just got another set of Axxis / Slotted drilled rotors in powder coated black for my DC2. It made a HUGE difference. I'm going to put the same setup on my FA1 next time it chews it's front pads.

[Zeuceone]

power coated black. ???

[cappykd]

Originally Posted by Zeuceone

powder coated black. ???

Yes the unswept areas and in the vanes. Not the braking surface.

[unplugged]

Originally Posted by slynx

will upgrading the rotors like having them drilled and slotted do anything for performance?

yes

Basically having both will reduce fade, help escape gases, and look cool.

[unplugged]

Originally Posted by cappykd

Yes the unswept areas and in the vanes. Not the braking surface.

damn i wish i knew they did that.. would've done them to mine when i had them.. doesn't matter now as the car is still up for sale.haha

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by unplugged

yes

Basically having both will reduce fade, help escape gases, and look cool.

Absolutely not. Having drilled and/or slotted rotors will do nothing for braking performance whatsoever. A brake is a mechanical device that converts kinetic energy into heat. All you end doing by drilling your brakes is removing heat absorbing material. Gas production in modern brake pads is next to nothing, this isn't 1950. Drilling the rotor is actually a misnomer as most high end drilled rotors actually have the holes cast in. The holes also introduce a point for the rotor to crack and fail. God forbid someone buys one of the cheapie drilled rotors where the holes are actually drilled! I guarantee you that rotor will fail.

Car and Driver raced an Si at the 25 hours of Thunderhill and they used stock rotors, Pagid pads, Goodridge lines, and Motul 600 brake fluid. Oh yeah, they finished 1-2 in class 5th and 8th overall in a 58 car field.

[slynx]

i see, if it doesnt help with the performance i won't get them just yet. they'll be one of my last things for aesthetics. i just wanted a bit more response. after going at high speeds and i wanna get to my exit, it takes a looooong while for me to drop back down to like 50.

[unplugged]

Originally Posted by TampaSi07

Absolutely not. Having drilled and/or slotted rotors will do nothing for braking performance whatsoever. A brake is a mechanical device that converts kinetic energy into heat. All you end doing by drilling your brakes is removing heat absorbing material. Gas production in modern brake pads is next to nothing, this isn't 1950. Drilling the rotor is actually a misnomer as most high end drilled rotors actually have the holes cast in. The holes also introduce a point for the rotor to crack and fail. God forbid someone buys one of the cheapie drilled rotors where the holes are actually drilled! I guarantee you that rotor will fail.

Car and Driver raced an Si at the 25 hours of Thunderhill and they used stock rotors, Pagid pads, Goodridge lines, and Motul 600 brake fluid. Oh yeah, they finished 1-2 in class 5th and 8th overall in a 58 car field.

Then why do track cars have slotted rotors, pads, SS lines, etc??? If it didn't reduce fade, they would be using OEM rotors with aftermarket pads.

Why is it when I marked off a spot on the road from 60-0 - stopping 7 times with the OEM setup and 7 times with my aftermarket setup, I stopped about 6-10 feet shorter each time. Why was it that my brakes never felt mushy after the 3rd time i slammed on my brakes.

On my other car I didn't even have SS lines and I still had less fade.

Also, drilled rotors are fine if they are using a good program to drill the holes. If you use a cheap material or drill in the wrong areas of the rotors, that will cause it to crack.

I agree modern day pad compounds have improved since the 1950's, but gas is gas, and heat is heat. Don't tell me new pads don't heat up the rotors. I'd like to see you slam on your brakes from 90mph to 0, then go and touch your rotors. You can fry more than an egg on that shit.

[cappykd]

Originally Posted by unplugged

Then why do track cars have slotted rotors, pads, SS lines, etc??? If it didn't reduce fade, they would be using OEM rotors with aftermarket pads.

Why is it when I marked off a spot on the road from 60-0 - stopping 7 times with the OEM setup and 7 times with my aftermarket setup, I stopped about 6-10 feet shorter each time. Why was it that my brakes never felt mushy after the 3rd time i slammed on my brakes.

On my other car I didn't even have SS lines and I still had less fade.

Also, drilled rotors are fine if they are using a good program to drill the holes. If you use a cheap material or drill in the wrong areas of the rotors, that will cause it to crack.

I agree modern day pad compounds have improved since the 1950's, but gas is gas, and heat is heat. Don't tell me new pads don't heat up the rotors. I'd like to see you slam on your brakes from 90mph to 0, then go and touch your rotors. You can fry more than an egg on that shit.

Better yet, why do high end Mercedes and other exotics have cross-drilled rotors.. It's kinda like the Mobil one argument. Some people are dead against it, Others point out that high end cars $60k+ come with Mobil One. Not Dino.

For the Poster commenting on the Car and Driver track day.. Go check out some articles on other track days like when the SI was taken to Button Willow when it first came out and it ate the front brakes in one day. I have 20k miles on my slotted and cross drilled rotors and they perform like new and I couldn't be happier.

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by unplugged

Then why do track cars have slotted rotors, pads, SS lines, etc??? If it didn't reduce fade, they would be using OEM rotors with aftermarket pads.

Show me these "track cars." NASCAR? Nope, F1? Nope. IRL? Nope. Champ Car? Nope.

Why is it when I marked off a spot on the road from 60-0 - stopping 7 times with the OEM setup and 7 times with my aftermarket setup, I stopped about 6-10 feet shorter each time. Why was it that my brakes never felt mushy after the 3rd time i slammed on my brakes.

First of all your marking method is horrendously inaccurate. Second of all if you have an aftermarket brake set-up that means you have aftermarket pads. Three stops is meaningless. Try a 30 minute track session with your brakes and then get back to me.

On my other car I didn't even have SS lines and I still had less fade.

Braided lines have nothing to do with fade. Fade is caused by the brake fluid boiling and by overheated pads. All SS lines do is minutely diminish pedal sponginess caused by brake line expansion under pressure.

Also, drilled rotors are fine if they are using a good program to drill the holes. If you use a cheap material or drill in the wrong areas of the rotors, that will cause it to crack.

LOL, I have spent 20 years roadracing starting in karts at 15 years old. I also have done tech for HPDE's for the past 10 years. I can usually identify the rotors that have been drilled like you mentioned because most of them don't even have chamfered edges on the holes. I wouldn't pass your car through tech and I would send you home. DRILLED ROTORS WHERE THE HOLES ARE NOT CAST IN FAIL! I can't even count the number of drilled rotor failures I have seen in the past 10 years on the track.

From Brembo's website:

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are not recommended for track use or intended to be used in conjunction with race compound brake pads on the street.

MPORTANT REMINDER: Slotted, drilled or dimpled rotors offered as OEM replacements should not be considered appropriate for high-speed track use.

While grooved, drilled and slotted rotors offer an enhanced appearance and add some resistance to the boundary layer of gasses that can build up between the pad and rotor, they are not designed to withstand the extreme temperatures that are produced on the racetrack. If they are used on the track, it is very important that the rotors be carefully inspected and should not be driven on if even minor signs of deterioration are seen.

I agree modern day pad compounds have improved since the 1950's, but gas is gas, and heat is heat. Don't tell me new pads don't heat up the rotors. I'd like to see you slam on your brakes from 90mph to 0, then go and touch your rotors. You can fry more than an egg on that shit.

What does heat have to do with outgassing on modern non-organic brake pads?

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by cappykd

Better yet, why do high end Mercedes and other exotics have cross-drilled rotors.. It's kinda like the Mobil one argument. Some people are dead against it, Others point out that high end cars $60k+ come with Mobil One. Not Dino.

They come with those rotors for looks and because not everyone understands the physics behind braking systems.

For the Poster commenting on the Car and Driver track day.. Go check out some articles on other track days like when the SI was taken to Button Willow when it first came out and it ate the front brakes in one day.

PADS PADS PADS!! A street pad is good for maybe 800 degrees. That's what cars come with. A track pad will range from 1100 degrees to over 1700 degrees if you are using DOT R tires.

If you would have read I wasn't talking about a "TRACK DAY." I was talking about a 25 hour major endurance race. Your strawman argument isn't going to work here.

I have 20k miles on my slotted and cross drilled rotors and they perform like new and I couldn't be happier.

Ignorance is bliss as they say. You simply don't know what you are missing so of course you are happy. I have 20 years of racing experience and I have probably logged more track miles than many drivers here have logged miles period. There is nothing magical here, it's simple physics. Even the biggest manufacturer says I am right. Drilled rotors are nothing more than a looks upgrade and they sacrifice performance and safety. If you couldn't be happier then good for you.

Once again, from Brembo:

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are not recommended for track use or intended to be used in conjunction with race compound brake pads on the street.

MPORTANT REMINDER: Slotted, drilled or dimpled rotors offered as OEM replacements should not be considered appropriate for high-speed track use.

While grooved, drilled and slotted rotors offer an enhanced appearance and add some resistance to the boundary layer of gasses that can build up between the pad and rotor, they are not designed to withstand the extreme temperatures that are produced on the racetrack. If they are used on the track, it is very important that the rotors be carefully inspected and should not be driven on if even minor signs of deterioration are seen.

Are you really going to argue against the people that make the brakes? If you guys think you know more about brakes than Brembo then knock yourselves out.

[slynx]

this has been very informative. is there any way that i can keep the rotors from rusting then? i was pretty close to getting hte bdi rotors, but aestetics wasn't my main concern, but i still want them looking clean.

[TampaSi07]

Originally Posted by slynx

this has been very informative. is there any way that i can keep the rotors from rusting then? i was pretty close to getting hte bdi rotors, but aestetics wasn't my main concern, but i still want them looking clean.

Why not contact someone on here getting a new big brake kit for the Si and see if you can't pick up their rotors/calipers cheap. That way you can upgrade to the 11.8" Si front brakes.

If you want to go cheaper than that and you are really concerned about rust you could of course go with a cadmium plated rotor, but honestly outside of looks the rust is no big deal. Just get your current rotor resurfaced and swap out your pads for some with better bite and much higher heat resistance. I use Carbotech pads in everything from my street cars to race cars. Their site will give you some good info on their different pad materials:

http://www.ctbrakes.com/