Anyone using the 30mm Front Progress Sway Bar?

[brthorner]

I'm not even sure this is available yet, but I thought I would see if anyone is using it. It's only 7% larger than the stock 28mm front sway bar, compared to a 29% increase in diameter for their rear bar (22mm vs. 17mm), which makes sense, since you would want to dial out understeer. Compared to the same $150 for the front and rear tie bars, I think I'd rather have the front sway bar!

UltraRev is selling them, in case anyone is interested:

http://www.ultrarev.com/Sway_Bars_An...Bars-c348.html

Brian

[scarletSI]

hmm..i dont know. i think they were suppose to be released sumtime during the summer.

[Toxis]

http://www.ultrarev.com/Progress_Tec...07-p58740.html

Direct link.

[RWatters]

Stiffening the front suspension is going to do nothing but make more understeer.

The rear sway makes the car more neutral. I've never had oversteer with just it installed. Hell, I plan on going with a Civic LX front sway here in the future just so I can promote the rear end to move around even more. A tail-happy FWD car is a fast FWD car.

[eugenekim.net]

i upgraded to an lx sway bar... listen to rwatters

[brthorner]

Originally Posted by RWatters

Stiffening the front suspension is going to do nothing but make more understeer.

The rear sway makes the car more neutral. I've never had oversteer with just it installed. Hell, I plan on going with a Civic LX front sway here in the future just so I can promote the rear end to move around even more. A tail-happy FWD car is a fast FWD car.

Well look at the big brain on Brad! Just kidding...couldn't resist!

I appreciate the input, and I totally understand the ramifications of stiffening the front end, which is why I was wondering IF anybody was currently setup that way, and what they experienced, becuase as you elude to, I was considering only stiffening the rear.

Thanks!

Brian

[boost1320]

no point to upgrade. the car is on the verge of understeering as it is. just stick with the rear one. it will help bring the rear around in a turn which will help you way more.

[RWatters]

Originally Posted by brthorner

Well look at the big brain on Brad! Just kidding...couldn't resist!

I appreciate the input, and I totally understand the ramifications of stiffening the front end, which is why I was wondering IF anybody was currently setup that way, and what they experienced, becuase as you elude to, I was considering only stiffening the rear.

Thanks!

Brian

If I could add more I would. I just know that the car understeers enough in stock form that it really doesn't need any more help with that.

The spring/damper setup is the key part of any suspension, but for those on a budget different sways certainly do help! I can't tell you exactly what will happen but I can tell you that it won't be nearly as good for the car as a rear sway will be. Buy it, and if that's too much oversteer for you buy a front one or just take the rear off. Me? I want the rear end to be on the verge of oversteer any second I want it to. Hopefully those two (LX front, Progress rear) will get me closer to that goal!

Which reminds me, I was an idiot for selling my first Progress. lol

[brthorner]

Here is my plan (once all the parts become available):

Swift Sport Mach lowering springs (about $250)
KONI FSD dampers (about $600)
Progress 22mm rear sway bar (about $150)
Tanabe 4-point Underbrace (which I already own, but am waiting to install)

Those are for certain. The rest I'm unsure about...will probably wait:

SPC front & rear camber kits (about $250)
CorSport adjustable sway bar endlinks (about $50)
Megan front & rear tie bars (about $150)

I don't think those last three items are worth $450. If anything, I would start with the camber kits.

I've already got the wheels, tires and lugnuts:

18x7.5 +43mm Volk LE28N wheels (in Gold)
225/40R18 TOYO T1R tires
RAYS Forged lugnuts

That should do it for the handling department!

BT

[RWatters]

I would skip on the Corsport endlinks and pick up the Hotchkis tunable ones. They are a better design, they won't make noise, and they're a concealed unit so you don't have to worry about dust and rocks destroying them. They are a little more costly, but well-worth the extra $20 or so for each set.

They can be had at Tirerack's website, you just have to search for the RSX Type-S or Subaru Impreza to find them. They are identical to ours, though.

If you want the best handling, pick up a set of springs that only lower the car about an inch at the most. I'm not sure which ones there are for that, but H-Tech and HFP are some options. Any lower than that and you're starting to get to a point where the car may actually handle slightly worse because the car is so much lower without the proper spring rates that the suspension can't act as quickly and as predictable as it could sitting higher. I'm quite the hypocrite by saying that since I have Tein S-Tech's, but it's the truth.

The camber kits could/should help a lot especially given the whack-ass 2 degrees of rear camber we have stock. Around -1 up front and -0.5 in the rear would help, with toe being set at zero for front and rear. That's a good basic alignment setup that will compliment the rest.

I'm not sure how in-depth you want to go with this, but that would be a great basic (and rather cost-effective) setup that could really help to transform this car even more. I say cost-effective because you can pick up most of this for the price of a nice set of coil-overs itself.

[brthorner]

Exactly! I'm only looking at about $1,500 total for everything, which like you said, just gets you a really nice set of coilovers. And since this is for a daily driver, with maybe an Autocross event in the distant future, I don't need coilovers...and don't want them either. The Swift springs are supposed to be about a 25mm drop, give or take a few milimeters in the rear.

[Z1 Performance]

Originally Posted by RWatters

Stiffening the front suspension is going to do nothing but make more understeer.

The rear sway makes the car more neutral. I've never had oversteer with just it installed. Hell, I plan on going with a Civic LX front sway here in the future just so I can promote the rear end to move around even more. A tail-happy FWD car is a fast FWD car.

that is not necessarily true

a bigger front sway bar dramatically improves turn in response, and that change more than outweighs the slightly increased oversteer (which is easily corrected through camber)

a tail happy any car is a slow car 9 times out of 10

[PrivateTune]

Originally Posted by Z1 Performance

that is not necessarily true

a bigger front sway bar dramatically improves turn in response, and that change more than outweighs the slightly increased oversteer (which is easily corrected through camber)

a tail happy any car is a slow car 9 times out of 10

Good respond Z1. Finally somebody knows what they are talking about.

[Andrei'sCivic]

This is what I posted in the "Progress Sway Bar" thread which PrivateTune started:

30mm front sway bar...damn!!! I don't know, why not get it? Stock the Si was 17mm in the rear and 27.2mm up front 10mm difference, if you upgrade to the progress rear sway bar that is 22mm and you think that its a little too stiff get the 30mm front anti-sway bar. The differnce will be 8mm. So... you increased the rear by 5mm and the front by 3mm, so you should still be more prone to oversteer compared to stock.
Personaly I say go for the Carbing front upper strut bar, if you feel your car's rear end is a little twichy or stiff.

I like my set-up on my 07 LX.
- I have the rear Si sway bar, and the Carbing front upper strut bar. It feels very balanced and neutral.
However I'm contemplating upgrading to the front Si bar (25.4mm to 27.2) and upgrading the rear to a 22mm Progress sway bar. (up from 17mm, solid)

[Andrei'sCivic]

Originally Posted by Z1 Performance

that is not necessarily true

a bigger front sway bar dramatically improves turn in response, and that change more than outweighs the slightly increased oversteer (which is easily corrected through camber)

a tail happy any car is a slow car 9 times out of 10

Question: Since the front end of the non Si Civic's are a little lighter than those of the Si, would installing the oem front si sway bar on an LX or EX be the same as installing the Progress 30mm front sway bar on the Si? Yes? Or yes to some extent?
- Because surely there will be a difference between an EX Civic with the Progress front anti-sway bar installed and a Civic Si with the Progress front anti-sway bar installed. (given they both have the same size bars in the back.)

[PrivateTune]

Originally Posted by Andrei'sCivic

Question: Since the front end of the non Si Civic's are a little lighter than those of the Si, would installing the oem front si sway bar on an LX or EX be the same as installing the Progress 30mm front sway bar on the Si? Yes? Or yes to some extent?
- Because surely there will be a difference between an EX Civic with the Progress front anti-sway bar installed and a Civic Si with the Progress front anti-sway bar installed. (given they both have the same size bars in the back.)

The differences between Si and Non Si's weight distribution is only by one percent. It will feel the same on both car with the Progress front sway bar. If you only have Progress Sway in the rear and Si sway in the front, you won't get the full benefit from the whole Progress package. I don't believe a company just going to manufacture a whatever size sway bar they want to make. The number 30 don't just come out from nowhere.

[Z1 Performance]

Originally Posted by Andrei'sCivic

Question: Since the front end of the non Si Civic's are a little lighter than those of the Si, would installing the oem front si sway bar on an LX or EX be the same as installing the Progress 30mm front sway bar on the Si? Yes? Or yes to some extent?
- Because surely there will be a difference between an EX Civic with the Progress front anti-sway bar installed and a Civic Si with the Progress front anti-sway bar installed. (given they both have the same size bars in the back.)

till I've tried both I'd have to reserve judgement :)

[Highrev1]

delete

[RedShiftChris]

My basic thought on this is that you don't necessarily want to run a bigger front bar when you have springs, shocks, camber, and rear bar changes that can be made. And I wouldn't assume that running the front and rear progress bar is better than running just the rear. The biggest issue the 8th Gen Civic has is lack of front camber from the factory, and if you can give the car more camber in front (like -3 deg), then the car will handle way better.

But with a strut front suspension, you have to balance keeping the contact patch on the ground in front(keeping the car from swaying too much).......especially in low speed turns like autocrossing.... you have to balance that with the fact that you'll could easily be hurting the steady state balance of the car with a big front bar.

And it all depends on how fast you are going in a given corner. The higher the speed, the more oversteer a car will generally experience.

Hope that helps somehow. It's all so complicated. :)
Chris at RedShift

[RWatters]

Originally Posted by Z1 Performance

that is not necessarily true

a bigger front sway bar dramatically improves turn in response, and that change more than outweighs the slightly increased oversteer (which is easily corrected through camber)

a tail happy any car is a slow car 9 times out of 10

There is no slightly increased oversteer in a FWD car when you add a stiffer front sway bar. There's more understeer, though.

FWD cars need help with LEAVING the corner where all of the understeer occours. Adding a thicker front sway bar is just going to make that even worse. What you want is a car that tends to be a little tail happy on entrance, the reason being you can then use that to your advantage by using the throttle (which is also the drive wheels on these cars) to have a neutral car on apex and exit. A tail happy rear wheel drive car is a slow one because the wheels used to drive the car are the ones sliding around. A tail happy front wheel drive car is about the most effective way to get around a road course or autocross course simply because it's the easiest/quickest to rotate the rear end with.

Now, when I say a tail happy car I don't mean a drift machine. I mean a car that can (and typically will) have a small amount of oversteer on entrance to a corner. It's a LOT easier to rotate a FWD car that already wants to do it for you, after all.

Like someone already mentioned, though, sway-bars should be the last tool used to tune your suspension and not the main one unless you're A.) on a budget, B.) don't want to deal with any other parts of the suspension, or C.) don't really know what you're doing and want something that's going to help without the need for much elsewhere.