Please take a few to help me!

[mc1200s]

Just installed my progress lowering springs on my 06 Si last night. I took it into the alligment shop today and left very disapointed. I am now $70 poorer and my car is worse than it was prior to the allignment. For the people who know out there, please take a minute to explain to me what went wrong in this picture.

First off, as a side note, progress (the company itself) informed me that I should not have any problems with my front suspension at all. They told me I would need a rear caber kit which I purchased. This post isnt about camber, its about supposed caster.

06 si with progress springs:

prior to alligment specs as followed:

front left camber before 0.4 (specified range is -0.9 to 0.6)
front left camber after 0.4---They made no change at all because it wasnt needed.

front left caster before 7.2 (specified range is 0.6 to 2.6)
front left caster after 7.2---They made no change

front left toe before .06 (specified range is -.12 to .12)
front left toe after .01---made a change that wasnt even necessary



front right camber before 0.3 (specified range is -0.9 to 0.6)
front right camber after 0.3---They made no change at all because it wasnt needed.

front right caster before 3.4 (specified range is 0.6 to 2.6)
front right caster after 3.4---They made no change

front left toe before .20 (specified range is -.12 to .12)
front left toe after .01---made a change that wasnt even necessary


These are the stats. You want to know what I am left with? A car that pulls to the left at highway speeds. The steering wheel is off to the left by about 15-20 degrees. When you hold the steering wheel straight, it goes immediately to the right lane.

Basically this car is pretty dangerous right now.

They told me that they can't fix my car thats how it is. They told me that the reason it is pulling is because I need a front caster kit. Progress says they are full of shit.

Front caster kit to correct my problem??? WTF??? This guy is not very smart, right?

What is causing me to pull to the left hard on the highway and pull to the right when I hold me steering wheel centered?

Also just to let you know, my goodyear eagles are just like brand new and I had no problem ever before. My car is brand new with only 7k miles on it and prior to this lowering with progess springs I had 100% spot on new car allignment.

Who's at fault here, why are they at fault, and what do I need to do to get my car back straight?

I think I should ask them for a refund, but before I do that I want to make sure that I have the right to. What do you guys think?

Im so sorry for this bs post but it is really bothering me and I had a small mom and pop shop take my money this evening, not offer to refund me and they were also trying to talk to me in circles and make me feel stupid.

Help me. You know I would help you guys!

[mc1200s]

She shop that installed the springs have done this for years and own many civics that are dropped.

This was a cake job for them--I watched it all and they were installed by the books

[TexasK20Z]

The alignment shop is full of crap. The whell should be straight. The car should not pull either direction... actually... there should be a slight slow pull to the right. Take the car back, grab up some balls and make them fix it.

[chullen]

Originally Posted by mc1200s

Just installed my progress lowering springs on my 06 Si last night. I took it into the alligment shop today and left very disapointed. I am now $70 poorer and my car is worse than it was prior to the allignment. For the people who know out there, please take a minute to explain to me what went wrong in this picture.

First off, as a side note, progress (the company itself) informed me that I should not have any problems with my front suspension at all. They told me I would need a rear caber kit which I purchased. This post isnt about camber, its about supposed caster.

06 si with progress springs:

prior to alligment specs as followed:

front left camber before 0.4 (specified range is -0.9 to 0.6)
front left camber after 0.4---They made no change at all because it wasnt needed.

front left caster before 7.2 (specified range is 0.6 to 2.6)
front left caster after 7.2---They made no change

front left toe before .06 (specified range is -.12 to .12)
front left toe after .01---made a change that wasnt even necessary



front right camber before 0.3 (specified range is -0.9 to 0.6)
front right camber after 0.3---They made no change at all because it wasnt needed.

front right caster before 3.4 (specified range is 0.6 to 2.6)
front right caster after 3.4---They made no change

front left toe before .20 (specified range is -.12 to .12)
front left toe after .01---made a change that wasnt even necessary


These are the stats. You want to know what I am left with? A car that pulls to the left at highway speeds. The steering wheel is off to the left by about 15-20 degrees. When you hold the steering wheel straight, it goes immediately to the right lane.

Basically this car is pretty dangerous right now.

They told me that they can't fix my car thats how it is. They told me that the reason it is pulling is because I need a front caster kit. Progress says they are full of shit.

Front caster kit to correct my problem??? WTF??? This guy is not very smart, right?

What is causing me to pull to the left hard on the highway and pull to the right when I hold me steering wheel centered?

Also just to let you know, my goodyear eagles are just like brand new and I had no problem ever before. My car is brand new with only 7k miles on it and prior to this lowering with progess springs I had 100% spot on new car allignment.

Who's at fault here, why are they at fault, and what do I need to do to get my car back straight?

I think I should ask them for a refund, but before I do that I want to make sure that I have the right to. What do you guys think?

Im so sorry for this bs post but it is really bothering me and I had a small mom and pop shop take my money this evening, not offer to refund me and they were also trying to talk to me in circles and make me feel stupid.

Help me. You know I would help you guys!

don't worry about caster, you just need to worry about camber and toe in or out. caster is a non wearing angle. Camber and toe are the angle that cause improper tire wear.

[chullen]

Originally Posted by mc1200s

Just installed my progress lowering springs on my 06 Si last night. I took it into the alligment shop today and left very disapointed. I am now $70 poorer and my car is worse than it was prior to the allignment. For the people who know out there, please take a minute to explain to me what went wrong in this picture.

First off, as a side note, progress (the company itself) informed me that I should not have any problems with my front suspension at all. They told me I would need a rear caber kit which I purchased. This post isnt about camber, its about supposed caster.

06 si with progress springs:

prior to alligment specs as followed:

front left camber before 0.4 (specified range is -0.9 to 0.6)
front left camber after 0.4---They made no change at all because it wasnt needed.

front left caster before 7.2 (specified range is 0.6 to 2.6)
front left caster after 7.2---They made no change

front left toe before .06 (specified range is -.12 to .12)
front left toe after .01---made a change that wasnt even necessary



front right camber before 0.3 (specified range is -0.9 to 0.6)
front right camber after 0.3---They made no change at all because it wasnt needed.

front right caster before 3.4 (specified range is 0.6 to 2.6)
front right caster after 3.4---They made no change

front left toe before .20 (specified range is -.12 to .12)
front left toe after .01---made a change that wasnt even necessary


These are the stats. You want to know what I am left with? A car that pulls to the left at highway speeds. The steering wheel is off to the left by about 15-20 degrees. When you hold the steering wheel straight, it goes immediately to the right lane.

Basically this car is pretty dangerous right now.

They told me that they can't fix my car thats how it is. They told me that the reason it is pulling is because I need a front caster kit. Progress says they are full of shit.

Front caster kit to correct my problem??? WTF??? This guy is not very smart, right?

What is causing me to pull to the left hard on the highway and pull to the right when I hold me steering wheel centered?

Also just to let you know, my goodyear eagles are just like brand new and I had no problem ever before. My car is brand new with only 7k miles on it and prior to this lowering with progess springs I had 100% spot on new car allignment.

Who's at fault here, why are they at fault, and what do I need to do to get my car back straight?

I think I should ask them for a refund, but before I do that I want to make sure that I have the right to. What do you guys think?

Im so sorry for this bs post but it is really bothering me and I had a small mom and pop shop take my money this evening, not offer to refund me and they were also trying to talk to me in circles and make me feel stupid.

Help me. You know I would help you guys!

if it is pulling then you have a toe or camber problem not a caster problem. Your steering wheel could have been off center when they did the alignment and when it adjusted it was wrong, take it back and tell them to fix their mistake

[mc1200s]

Originally Posted by chullen

if it is pulling then you have a toe or camber problem not a caster problem. Your steering wheel could have been off center when they did the alignment and when it adjusted it was wrong, take it back and tell them to fix their mistake

how can i have them fix a mistake when they have printed out a sheet for me that shows the numbers i listed to you

the toe and camber are in spec--

still pulls---but mostly what is bothering me is when i told the steering wheel straight, the car rips to the right.

but normal driving it is tugging to the left and the steering wheel is to the left when i go straight--

they told me the same thing that you told me----they printed the sheet and and all and the toe and camber are good---

There has gotta be something that we are all missing here...
I would think---Or maybe Im just not fully understanding you all. I'm a dummy when it comes to this stuff---but im soaking it in like a sponge

[mc1200s]

or atleast trying

[TexasK20Z]

You car pulls. Your steering wheel is not properly aligned. You have a problem. They screwed it up. First... they need to set the car into slight negative camber, the positive camber is HORRIBLE for handling. Zero toe should be okay... but a little toe won't kill you.

[caveman74]

Get your wheel straight first. Mine is off just a little and it drifts. Also make sure your tires are correctly inflated.

I alighned my car myself, just need to do a little more tweaking

[kenchan]

first off you want let the lowering spring settle abit (like 2-3 weeks at least)
before you take it in. i sometimes let it settle a month.

but before you take it in, you will need to set the height correctly by adding
weight. (im sure you guys are like WTF?!) hahaha, read on.

1. place your car on flat ground, measure your ride height at each corner from
ground to fender arch.

2. raise your car with your jack on each corner one by one. do all 4 corners
or do a side at a time (my way).

3. lower your car and measure your ride height. you will notice that it's
higher. that's okay, it's suppose to be that way because lowering springs do
not come with helper springs and extend after the car is raised.

4. add weights (sand bags, bags of rice, wheels, etc) in the car to get the
car back to the initial height you had. (most cases you will need to
add sand bags on the frontseat floors).

5. raise the car again each corner (or a side at a time) and lower the car.
measure and see if the height is the same as initial.

keep adding weight until you get there.

why do you do this? if you watch 4 wheel alignment racks, the car is
lifted on/off the rack while the tech makes adjustments. lowering springs
tend to extend out after it's raised off the rack and when the tech
puts the car back onto the rack the height is altered...which means
he's getting false measurements.

on most springs if you let it settle a couple of weeks the spring gets
loaded better after it's extended so you wont have to add a lot of weight.

if the tech lets you, it's actually better to have it aligned with you in
the car, but since you're not corner balancing the car (as with coil overs),
not as critical especially considering the nature of the progressive rate
springs.

hope this helps. if you do wat i mentioned above and if your tech is
competent, you will be able to nail your alignment in one shot.

[kenchan]

btw, after the alignment, remove those weights. lol..

[DTurnbull]

Well, something is definately wrong here. I have Eibach Sportlines and have had them for almost 3K miles. I never had an alignment (waiting to go to coilovers) and have had zero drive-ability issues, but I have noticed a little feathering on the tires due to toe. There is no way your car should be pulling and the only way your steering wheel could be off-center is if they screwed something up.

When reading all this, however, the first thing that came to mind, was whether or not they had the right specs to begin with. Double-check your owners manual and compare - the specs are in there..

The only other thing that comes to mind is when you installed your springs, did you pre-load the suspension prior to tightening every thing to spec?

Oh yeah, check your tire pressures too. It's a dumb thing, but I've seen dumber things happen...

[mc1200s]

Originally Posted by DTurnbull

Well, something is definately wrong here. I have Eibach Sportlines and have had them for almost 3K miles. I never had an alignment (waiting to go to coilovers) and have had zero drive-ability issues, but I have noticed a little feathering on the tires due to toe. There is no way your car should be pulling and the only way your steering wheel could be off-center is if they screwed something up.

When reading all this, however, the first thing that came to mind, was whether or not they had the right specs to begin with. Double-check your owners manual and compare - the specs are in there..

The only other thing that comes to mind is when you installed your springs, did you pre-load the suspension prior to tightening every thing to spec?

Oh yeah, check your tire pressures too. It's a dumb thing, but I've seen dumber things happen...

The tech told me that the reason my car was going straight before the allignment and now SUCKS is because my rear was so screwed up and it was fighting the front. He told me that when he fixed the rear it actually screwed up how the front of the car is driving.

The rear left stats are as followed:
Camber
Actual (-.06)
Before (-2.3)
Specs (-1.6 - - 0.1)
Toe:
Actual 0.28
Before 0.46
Specified range ( .04 - .16 )



Rear right camber stats:
Actual (-0.3)
Before (-2.8)
Specified range ( -1.6 -0.1 )
Toe:
actual (.06)
before (-2.8)
specified range (.04 .16)

The technician was also very confused why the rear left Toe is still (.28) He told me he could not adjust it physically by any means.

Could you explain this to me so I can explain it to him.

[mc1200s]

Heres a new clue for guys...

The car is really messed up now. I think something was installed wrong because whenever I turn the wheel to the left, the front left strut area CRACKS POPS like you are grinding teeth. It is soo bad that I'm affraid to drive my car.

Maybe this has something to do with the caster being so far out.
I'm starting to think that somebody made a mistake of some sort during the install.

What would be causing this and what did they do wrong? The shop that installed it are pretty nice guys and I'm sure they will fix it if they know what they did wrong. But I have a feeling they have no clue what they did wrong.....Although they have installed many springs on hondas in the past.

Hope this clue helps---With the caster being out on my front right, I wonder it the spring/strut is improperly installed on that side also?

[DTurnbull]

How the rear could have been so "screwed-up" is a mystery to me. It just doesn't makes sense.

As far as the popping & grinding noise goes, it sounds like your installer may have popped the top bearing cap off the struts and lost some of the bearings or something. Whatever it is, something is really wrong and it sounds like you may need to go back to your spring installer first and go from there.

On a side note: If there's one thing I hate, it's shops that blame their own incompetence on "aftermarket" parts rather than their lack of ability, knowledge, experience, and good old common sense. Sound's as if there is some of that going on here & you get stuck in the middle..

[mc1200s]

Originally Posted by DTurnbull

How the rear could have been so "screwed-up" is a mystery to me. It just doesn't makes sense.

As far as the popping & grinding noise goes, it sounds like your installer may have popped the top bearing cap off the struts and lost some of the bearings or something. Whatever it is, something is really wrong and it sounds like you may need to go back to your spring installer first and go from there.

On a side note: If there's one thing I hate, it's shops that blame their own incompetence on "aftermarket" parts rather than their lack of ability, knowledge, experience, and good old common sense. Sound's as if there is some of that going on here & you get stuck in the middle..

Thanks for the input---Now when you say bearing cap--its kind of hard for me to imagine what this may look like. I've got a picture of a can of pringles, pop the top and now all these bearing come out---I know thats not the case, but what is the case?
Is there just one ball bearing---a bearing with little balls all around it and one of those cam out---If this was the case what would I have to buy to replace it? Or what would they have to buy? Just a bearing itself or a new strut?

thanks

[DTurnbull]

Originally Posted by mc1200s

Thanks for the input---Now when you say bearing cap--its kind of hard for me to imagine what this may look like. I've got a picture of a can of pringles, pop the top and now all these bearing come out---I know thats not the case, but what is the case?
Is there just one ball bearing---a bearing with little balls all around it and one of those cam out---If this was the case what would I have to buy to replace it? Or what would they have to buy? Just a bearing itself or a new strut?

thanks

Well, without a picture it's kind'a hard to explain, but I'll try. When the spring is compressed and the top strut nut is off, the cap/top of the assembly pulls off. It has a bearing assembly inside of it with a whole mess of little bearings. This top part can come apart just by hand. I know, one of mine came apart in the process. If you're not careful, the bearings will spill all over the place. The only thing holding them in is the grease around them. They all need to be in there. I have no idea if you can buy them individually, that's a question for your dealer. Do a seach for a spring install and you can probably find some pics of what I'm doing a poor job of describing. This is the only area that I can think of that may be causing the noise you're describing. Wish I could be of more help..

[stevenshizzle]

What's the status of your suspension setup?

[cappykd]

Bump for updates..

[caveman74]

He went HFP