big brake kit.

Originally Posted by sickyute

reason i don't want any of the wilwood kits fastbrakes offers is because they seem pieced together...

i'd much prefer to have one kit from one manufacturer... brembo kit, stoptech or rotora ... no whosever rotors, then willwood calipers, then something else lines .. etc etc ....

if it's not like that ... then i stand corrected ...

i'd prefer to have brembo though ... the TL kit looks to be a good buy.

I dont blame you about the brembo brakes you have high quailty stuff throught out your whole car dont stop now right..

[blaznhot_23]

Originally Posted by Black Si

I dont blame you about the brembo brakes you have high quailty stuff throught out your whole car dont stop now right..

don't count those wilwood calipers out of the game...i have used them on old 69 C10 PU and there right up there w/ the big boys like BAER and Brembo. they are very popular w/ the old school crowd becuase they cover a wide array of vehicles. My opinion is its personal preference as to which brake manufacturer one will go with. if baer made a kit for the si I would go them hands down due to the fact i have used them multiple times...but i would still settle for wilwood or brembo.

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted by skittleslegend

I just want to point out real quick that the braking systems on many modified cars are actually the weakest points, even WITH aftermarket kits. MANY modified cars can actually take longer to stop than with the stock system. Obviously, this is not the case with all cars, but I would think it has a lot to do with the increased rotational mass, but that's just a guess. This information actually came from Sport Compact Magazine's "The Truth About Mods" issue, where they talked to aftermarket brake manufacturers.

If you read Stoptech's product literature, you'll see they are well aware about bias issues and design their systems to move bias TOWARD the rear by slightly decreasing front brake torque, despite the increased mechanical advantage of larger rotors. They do this via adjusting the piston sizes of their calipers to exert less force for the same brake line input. Their intent is to give the driver better feel and wear characteristics inherent in a multi-piston caliper with the increased thermal mass of the larger rotors, not to have front brakes so powerful they'll stand the car on its nose.

A few years back, Car and Driver tested front BBKs on a WRX and found that most actually offer a bit of improvement in stopping distance over even stock brakes with high friction pads and all offered better fade resistance. Stoptech was among the best and were the cheapest option.

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted by blaznhot_23

if brake bias is such a concern...then why does honda have a vented rotor that is larger in the front as compared to a non-vented rotor that is smaller in the rear???

Because Honda knows that most braking is done in the front, especially in FF vehicles and they designed the system to actually have more front than rear bias than may actually be ideal because they engineer the car for the lowest common denominator owner, who may not be able to handle more rear bias, since this destabilizes the car in extreme situations. Those extreme situations could include an overloaded vehicle and/or sudden weight transfer from cornering. We're also talking about maybe a 10-15% difference here, not an even 50/50 split, so we might go from 75/25 to 65/35 to get ideal balance.

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted by sickyute

i don't want just brembo calipers....
i want a full big brake kit...

true the rotors are big enuff and better pads help ... but not for me anymore...
i have issues stopping my car quickly ... and yes it's because of heat ... there's no way i can cool them down ... i'm not about to replace my fogs with air ducts...

i've changed pads, brake fluid, i have stainless steel lines ... i need more braking power/clamping force and brakes that stay cooler.. no doubt about that.

fastbrakes only has the TL brembo kit ... what's the difference between that and the gran turismo kit? anyone know the color of the calipers in the TL kit?

Folks are racing the Si with the OEM brakes, AFAIK. I did see they were having some issues with cracked rotors though, but racing is still far more stressful than anything you'll ever do on the street. You have Hawk HP pads, which, to my knowledge, have an upper heat limit of around 800 degrees, which is all too easy to exceed in a FF application. Axxis ultimates are good for 1000 degrees, with Cobalt GT sports good for around the same, as well as Ferodo DS2500 (which also have a thermal barrier between pad material and backing plate). Carbotech Bobcats are good for around 900+, maybe more.

You ought to buy some temperature paint and spot some on your front and rear rotors at the outside edges to get an idea just how hot the brakes are getting.

[sickyute]

great information...

+ a couple.

[blaznhot_23]

i guess bottom line is that a front BBK is good but coupled w/ some sort of rear option...like a larger caliper and rotors ...it would be even better.

[CZ-75]

www.shotimes.com/brakes/survey/brakes1.html

For anyone interested, the above link and at least 6 more following it are HTML downloads from the Taurus SHO website archive that are good info, if somewhat dated now (things like Carbotech bobcat replacing their older recommended compound "F"). The SHO is a good example of a fast, powerful FF vehicle that needs a lot of thermal capacity in the braking system, something Ford only realized later than most owners.

Better yet, here's a Google cached link that still has the images and figures.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=1

Another link, since it may be hard to find the cached pages:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...com+sho+brakes

[sickyute]

what he said about the stoptech kit though makes sence....

but i think all the other manufacturers would do the same thing ... especially brembo... u'd think they'd have at least the same knowledge/knowhow as stoptech to produce front brake kits that don't make brake bias bad.

well ... one can always get a rotora BBK for the front ... then upgrade the rear to their mini 4 pistoon caliper that is available ... that should do the trick ...

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted by sickyute

what he said about the stoptech kit though makes sence....

but i think all the other manufacturers would do the same thing ... especially brembo... u'd think they'd have at least the same knowledge/knowhow as stoptech to produce front brake kits that don't make brake bias bad.

well ... one can always get a rotora BBK for the front ... then upgrade the rear to their mini 4 pistoon caliper that is available ... that should do the trick ...

You would think, and I'm sure Brembo does, but the C&D testing actually showed some BBKs, such as the one from ProDrive, who make parts for WRC cars, as being WORSE than OEM stopping distance, IIRC, at least for the first several stops, until the OEM brakes faded.


http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ng-brakes.html

[blaznhot_23]

Originally Posted by sickyute

what he said about the stoptech kit though makes sence....

but i think all the other manufacturers would do the same thing ... especially brembo... u'd think they'd have at least the same knowledge/knowhow as stoptech to produce front brake kits that don't make brake bias bad.

well ... one can always get a rotora BBK for the front ... then upgrade the rear to their mini 4 pistoon caliper that is available ... that should do the trick ...

is the rear rotora mini caliper a bolt on affair???

[cappykd]

Does anyone know how EDB effects the brake bias? Does EBD enter into the equation?

[sickyute]

Originally Posted by blaznhot_23

is the rear rotora mini caliper a bolt on affair???

yes..
it's for the fg2.
they have the front one and the rear one...

i think it's a little pricey cuz it's just a caliper kit ... and it's almost the same price as their BBKs ... but atleast u can buy a front BBK and the the caliper kit for the rear...

but yes it's direct bolt on.

vendor on the site has it ... i think it's either excelerate or battle endless ...

[blaznhot_23]

Originally Posted by cappykd

Does anyone know how EDB effects the brake bias? Does EBD enter into the equation?

here ya go cappy some info to help you out...

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...ety/e/abs.html
http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/What_are_ABS_EBD_EPS_in_a_car

[blaznhot_23]

Originally Posted by sickyute

yes..
it's for the fg2.
they have the front one and the rear one...

i think it's a little pricey cuz it's just a caliper kit ... and it's almost the same price as their BBKs ... but atleast u can buy a front BBK and the the caliper kit for the rear...

but yes it's direct bolt on.

vendor on the site has it ... i think it's either excelerate or battle endless ...

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the mini caliper a 4 piston set up???

[sickyute]

for some reason my mind just thinks that EBD cna distribute force the same even with a BBK ... lol... like it would just know what to do to compensate...

need to read

[sickyute]

Originally Posted by blaznhot_23

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the mini caliper a 4 piston set up???

yes they are 4 piston.

[cappykd]

Originally Posted by blaznhot_23

here ya go cappy some info to help you out...

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...ety/e/abs.html
http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/What_are_ABS_EBD_EPS_in_a_car

Thankyou. That was what I was wondering.....

"EPD
EBD: Electronic Brake Distribution (or Electronic Brake-force Distributor) - alters how much of the brake force goes to the front and how much to the rear. Cars always have more braking on front as if the rears lock before the front then the car will spin. How much braking you can do with the rears depends on how much weight is in the vehicle so EBD dynamically adjusts this balance. Without it, the manufacturer sets up the balance so the rears don't lock when the vehicle is empty which is less braking than is possible when the vehicle is full. "

If that's what EBD does than won't the car be able to compensate automatically for the front BBK??? CZ-75?

[cappykd]

So if EBD will dynamically adjust the balance then a front only BBK shouldn't have a problem.

[blaznhot_23]

Originally Posted by sickyute

yes they are 4 piston.

isn't 4 piston a little too much for the rears since most BBK for the front are 4 and some 6??? plus as you said before the cost of teh mini caliper almost reaches that of a BBK for the front. I think dual piston in the rear is more than enough especially for a car the size of the FG...what do you think?