11-28-2006, 11:16 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Age: 20
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Very long read-
Props go out to my buddies Matt and Chris for writing this up awhile back.
Quote:
What kind of suspension should I get?
This is a loaded question. There's so many right and wrong answers depending on what you want to accomplish and who you talk to. The purpose of this thread is for everyone to put their thoughts down and for those people who are new to the world of modifying cars to gather an idea of what the real reasons behind doing suspension work are.
The way I look at suspension there's 3 to 4 "levels" of suspension. In my theory, included in these levels are price, quality, and parts used.
Coilovers/Springs
1) No-name coilovers - They have spring rates that aren't meant for any specific car and they'll create a ride that your kidneys will hate you for. These are meant for the people who don't really care about anything other than how the car looks, not how suspension can enhance a car's drivability both on the track and on the street. Personally I do my best to steer everyone away from this kind of thing. Learn from other's mistakes so you don't have to pay the price.
2) No-name springs - A slight step up from the coilovers.. but not much. The only thing you'll gain from these are a few less headaches because you can't adjust the ride height. Once again there are no car specific spring rates so you'll be in for a rough ride.
3) Name brand springs/coilovers - I'm going to lump these into the same category because I believe they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Lowering springs from companies such as H&R, Eibach, Tein, and Neuspeed are a perfect example of where to start from when looking into lowering your car. All of these companies make springs that are specifically meant for your car. What does that mean? That means you're getting a spring that's meant to bear the weight of your car through all the bumps and curves of everyday and track driving. All of the main companies have different stages of spring depending on your intended use of the car, how can you go wrong?
Well.. you can take it one step further in level three if you like, before stepping up to the next price level. Custom spring rate sleeve coilovers! The name you'll hear most often is Ground Control. Eibach springs that can be custom designed by the customer as it comes to spring rates. Plus you get the added benefit of being able to change your ride height. Whether they're worth the money is debatable. Personally I'm happy with the drop on my car and don't feel the need to be adjusting my ride height so I'm not going to upgrade to Ground Controls for quite some time. In the US where the AutoX scene is a lot bigger than anything we have here, many racers swear by Ground Control & others and would put them in front of many of the more expensive units. Combined with a good set of aftermarket shocks/struts (to be discussed futher on) it doesn't get much better.
4) Full body coilovers - Your big money units. Worth it? Most people will say yes. When it comes to cars, generally money will buy quality. Not having any experience with them myself doesn't put me in the best place to talk about them, but I'll give it a shot anyway. When it comes to Honda, the company you'll hear most often will be Tein. However there's a huge list of companies out there that make excellent products. To name a few off the top of my head, JIC, Tokico, and HA.
You get the best of all worlds with a setup like this. Ride height adjustibility, damping adjustability (on most brands) as well as excellent ride quality. Those of you that have setups like this feel free to add.
Final thoughts on springs etc. - I spent a long time deciding on what to go with. I ended up with Eibach Sportlines. I couldn't be happier. The springs offered the perfect drop and it's still driveable in winter. The ride, combined with the shocks I have is awesome, as many people can attest to.
Shocks/Stuts
I'm going use the word shocks just because it's that much cooler than the word strut. Although strut is pretty cool in it's own right... but I digress.
A car's suspension is only as good as it's shocks. I think that's something that everyone can agree on. Once again there are many options available. One this is for certain.. unless you're going with a full body coilover (which for the newbies combines a spring and shock into one piece) you need aftermarket shocks if you plan to lower your car.
It's absolutely worthless to waste your time and energy in putting springs or coilvers on your car and having your stock shocks blow on you in a day. Granted there are those lucky people out there who make it for a long time on stockers. I think most will agree that it's not worth the risk.
What are good aftermarket shocks? Well, once again that depends on who you ask and how much you want to spend. Personally I beleive that even for daily driving of a lowered car, having shocks that allow for external damping adjustability is a must. Why is this? Because even if you get non-adjustable aftermarket shocks.. your ride could be better as could your handling when it comes to a track situation.
Adjustables will optomize your setup for every situation you might find yourself in.
The two main manufacturers than most people usually talk about will be KYB and Koni. I beleive Bilstein makes externally adjustable shocks as well though (correct me if I'm wrong). The following my summary of main shock manufacturer's products.
1) KYB - They specialize in two popular products. The GR-2 non adjustable shock and the AGX externally adjustable.
The GR-2 a very popular aftermarket shock, however it is still considered to be an OEM replacement. The warranty on them doesn't cover lowered cars, the ride could be a lot better because the damping doesn't accept spring rates of a lowered vehicle as well as they could. However they are an improvement from OEM.
The AGX is probably the most popular mid-range adjustable shock on the market. They're great for daily driving as many people around here can attest to. Probably the best bang for your buck. The only negative is that the warranty is void when the car is lowered more than 1.5". Big deal? Not really. There haven't been too many horror stories regarding blow outs on them.
2) Tokico - Again, two main products. The Blue non adjustable, and Illumina adjustable.
The Tokico blue, much like the KYB GR-2 is technically an OEM replacement than can handle a lot more pounding. Still there are numerous stories around about them blowing out quickly as well.
The Illumina shock is a very good adjustable shock as well. They offer more settings than do the AGXs so your ride stiffness (or softness if you're a whimp) can be even more finely tuned. With the simple turn of a screwdriver at the top of the shock body.
3) Koni - Several products including the Koni Red, and Koni Sport (Yellow). Price is a premium on any Koni product and however bias this might sound, they are completely worth it.
The Koni Red is a much better OEM replacement than both the GR-2 and the Tokico Blue. However once again the lack of adjustability on them make it pointless in my mind to consider putting on a car that's been lowered.
The Koni Yellow is the high end of the spectrum when it comes to main stream aftermarket shocks. Unless you're willing to spend even more for Bilsteins and the like. I don't think there's any need to go to anything further than a set of Koni Yellows. Fully externally adjustable with just the twist of a knob, you can fine tune your stiffness to a miniscule point. Ride quality is above and beyond anything I could have expected when combined with the right springs.
Final thoughts - Like I said with the springs. It's all about what you hope to accomplish with your car. Personally, and I will always stick by this, there are MANY more options when it comes to springs/custom rate coils and shocks than there are with full body coils. The KYB AGX is the bare minimum that anyone who is serious about their car should be getting. I'd be rolling around on them right now if it wasn't for an amazing price break I got on my Yellows. In hindsight I'm glad I didn't get the AGX's because the Konis were in the back of my mind the whole time.
Other goodies
Think you're done with suspension after you've put new shocks and springs in? I think not. There's a huge world of accessories and parts that are needed to take full advantage of the potential your car might have.
Strut tower bars - Common knowledge says that strut tower bars are a must. They make the chassis more rigid by eliminating some of the flex. There is a huge world of bars out there for many of our cars. Ebay is filled with cheap brands and in my case I'm still in the midst of deciding what course of action to take when it comes to these parts. Some say a bar is just a bar.. others swear by the quality of name brands.
Sway bars - Should be something to consider because especially with our FWD cars there's going to be a lot of oversteer in hard corners. A rear sway bar is needed in order to eliminate some of this problem. The front I feel is negligable just based on the fact that a front sway bar isn't going to do much other than eliminate some more body roll. While there's no problem with this, it is worth it just to save some excess roll? That's your decision. Personally I'm going to look into a Suspension Techniques front and rear sway bar set. Not necessary for street driving.. but great for AutoX.
Camber kits - Lower you car? Well well.. your suspension geometry has been screwed up my friend. The argument about them could go on forever. I think they're a good investment. Get one for the front for sure. Many cars can use the "washer trick" for rear camber issues.
The End
Suspension is not something to be fooled around with just for looks. It can be extremely beneficial to the driving experience of your car and thus, I feel you should do it right the first time. Don't waste money on inferior parts and if it takes that much longer to do it, so be it. It'll be worth it in the end.
Oh.. and I forgot about rule number one after you lower your car. GET AN ALIGNMENT. I cannot stress this enough.
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