Doing Some Bracing!!

[thammy8991]

Hey guys!

i'm going to be ordering some braces within the next week. i've been looking around all winter and i think i'm going to go with Megan Racing's H-Brace and Front & Rear Lower Tie Bars. Corsport has some un-passable deals and it looks like my total w/ shipping is going to be 215.00.

i've always been a huge fan of the gold suspension parts on a black car.. but the megan racing blue looks pretty sick as well.

Can i get some opinions!?

THANKS!

[MStayt]

I think the general opinion is "don't waste your money".

Unless you just like the look there's much better ways to spend your money for performance.

[thammy8991]

Originally Posted by MStayt

I think the general opinion is "don't waste your money".

Unless you just like the look there's much better ways to spend your money for performance.

It wont help with body roll or anything? i love cornering!

...The looks quite nice too LOL

[FattyMcJ]

Originally Posted by thammy8991

It wont help with body roll or anything? i love cornering!

...The looks quite nice too LOL

"Stiffy bars" as they're often referred to, won't help "body roll". However, body roll isn't always a bad thing my friend. Up to a certain point, body roll can actually increase the grip of the tires by forcing more weight onto load bearing wheels during a corner. However, too much body roll will throw off the balance of the car and you'll get what's called the "slush box" effect.

If you don't have them already, a good set of tires will help FAR more when cornering than "stiffy bars". Then I would go with a good set of shocks and/or coilovers paired with sway bar(s).

Honestly, you won't notice a difference in having/not having "stiffy bars" during normal driving. They're for looks unless you get the car on an actual track/AutoX and need the more predictable feel at high speeds.

[thammy8991]

Originally Posted by FattyMcJ

"Stiffy bars" as they're often referred to, won't help "body roll". However, body roll isn't always a bad thing my friend. Up to a certain point, body roll can actually increase the grip of the tires by forcing more weight onto load bearing wheels during a corner. However, too much body roll will throw off the balance of the car and you'll get what's called the "slush box" effect.....

Thanks for taking the time to reply man! I knew body roll wasn't a bad thing, but i have a little to much for my favor! Your info will help me out this spring though cause after these braces im ordering coils and sways!

I'll more than likely still get the braces for the high speed cornering aspect! but other than that...

WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT OF THESE BRACES?!

[silentkillz1]

get a rear sway bar first then some coilovers

[thammy8991]

Originally Posted by silentkillz1

get a rear sway bar first then some coilovers

Thanks... but, how come? haha

[tehcodeman]

Because the new Si chassis is already stiff enough. You're not adding anything but weight with all those braces. A thicker sway bar like Progress offers definitely helps and coilovers are always an upgrade, but anything else is a waste of money.

[FattyMcJ]

Originally Posted by thammy8991

I'll more than likely still get the braces for the high speed cornering aspect! but other than that...

WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT OF THESE BRACES?!

It boils down to simple geometry. If you think of your car as a rectangle, you don't want the rectangle turning into a rhombus during heavy stress situations because that throws off the angles in the suspension.

|__| for example, becoming \__/ or \__\ or /__\

Now, with how robust our Si's are, and the speeds at which normal tires can hold grip, you will NEVER see any benefit from these stiffy bars because one of two things will happen first.

1) You (the driver) will freak out and correct the car due to the "Feel" of such high speed cornering. It's a knee jerk reaction, everyone does it. Go watch someone do their first AutoX or first track day. They're slow and sloppy.

2) Your tires will lose grip LONG before the stress reaches a point where the body/frame will flex. You'll either spin out, or you'll slow down from hearing the screeching tires.

Look at it like this, suspension works from the ground up.

Braces
|
Sway Bars
|
Coilovers/shocks/springs
|
Tires/Agressive Alignment

As you go up the ladder, you'll notice less drastic benefit and more "fine tuning". Without the base, the top won't have any effect.

[FattyMcJ]

Originally Posted by tehcodeman

Because the new Si chassis is already stiff enough. You're not adding anything but weight with all those braces. A thicker sway bar like Progress offers definitely helps and coilovers are always an upgrade, but anything else is a waste of money.

QFT

Anecdotal evidence. When I ran my EP3 in AutoX, I upgraded the rear sway bar to the Progress one, and DOWNGRADED my front bar to the EM2 bar (IIRC, don't remember since it was 5 yrs ago).

This gave my EP3 COMPLETELY different handling characteristics. Gone was the understeer that is common with FWD cars and introduced was a more RWD "feel" with the back end coming loose quite often. A huge difference with just two sway bars. Now, was it good for AutoX? Nope. I spun out far too often. Live and learn. Upgraded the tires and put on Buddy Club Racing dampers and voila...superb handling. Never needed any "stiffy bars".

OP...save your money for 1) Tires, 2) Coilovers if you want to actually notice a difference. If you want bling, by all means, slap on nice shiney things lol

[thammy8991]

Originally Posted by FattyMcJ

QFT

Anecdotal evidence. When I ran my EP3 in AutoX, I upgraded the rear sway bar to the Progress one, and DOWNGRADED my front bar to the EM2 bar (IIRC, don't remember since it was 5 yrs ago).

This gave my EP3 COMPLETELY different handling characteristics. Gone was the understeer that is common with FWD cars and introduced was a more RWD "feel" with the back end coming loose quite often. A huge difference with just two sway bars. Now, was it good for AutoX? Nope. I spun out far too often. Live and learn. Upgraded the tires and put on Buddy Club Racing dampers and voila...superb handling. Never needed any "stiffy bars".

OP...save your money for 1) Tires, 2) Coilovers if you want to actually notice a difference. If you want bling, by all means, slap on nice shiney things lol

Looks like you're on top of your suspension tactics!

Heres my revised plan!
1.) find a really good performance tire and get my alignment PERFECT!
2.) place my coils/sway bar order
3.) bling it the f*ck up!!

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL YOUR HELP!

[VanSi07]

Originally Posted by FattyMcJ

... However, body roll isn't always a bad thing my friend. Up to a certain point, body roll can actually increase the grip of the tires by forcing more weight onto load bearing wheels during a corner. However, too much body roll will throw off the balance of the car and you'll get what's called the "slush box" effect.

Completely and utterly 100% untrue.
Your car makes the most traction it will ever have sitting still in a parking lot.
Body roll is always detrimental to handling.

To the OP, sounds like you've got the right idea now. Proper camber, tires, a RSB, and you'll be in good shape.

[wowwitsgau]

Originally Posted by FattyMcJ

Look at it like this, suspension works from the ground up.

Braces
|
Sway Bars
|
Coilovers/shocks/springs
|
Tires/Agressive Alignment

As you go up the ladder, you'll notice less drastic benefit and more "fine tuning". Without the base, the top won't have any effect.

^^This is the exact order I did my suspension tuning actually.

I did:
1. aggressive alignment
2. tires/wider lighter wheels
3. coilovers
4. roll center adjuster
5. sway bar

When I got to the sway bar, I couldn't even really gauge the difference it made; all the other mods already helped to a great extent

[thammy8991]

now what exactly is an Aggressive Alignment?

[RGV-SI-]

Negative camber and depending on where you race possibly some Toe in for better turn in or toe out for high speed stability

[MStayt]

Originally Posted by thammy8991

now what exactly is an Aggressive Alignment?

Depends on what you want to do. The more aggressive the alignment, the more your tires will wear out.

Typically for our cars you want more camber in the front than the back for a more balanced feel.

For a hybrid track/DD setup I'd suggest -1.25 to -1.5 camber up front and -1 to -1.25 or so out back, zero toe all around.

[RGV-SI-]

^ On a street car setup this is perfect

[thammy8991]

sounds good! thanks guys!

[FattyMcJ]

Originally Posted by VanSi07

Body roll is always detrimental to handling.

Good one, thanks for the laugh.

Originally Posted by robbclark1 from another forum

To get the maximum performance out of your car you have to first understand vehicle dynamics. Basically Vehicle dynamics are all of the things that affect the way your car handles, such as accelerating, braking, turning and various road surfaces and conditions. Most of this deals with weight transfer. When you accelerate, weight is transferred to the back, when you brake, weight goes to the front. And when you turn weight is transferred to the outside of the corner. The rest deals with your suspensions ability to keep the tires firmly planted on the ground and keeping the tire contact patch as large as possible.
a. Weight
From every thing I’ve read, been told or seen work, how well a car handles is all about how well that car handles weight; as in where the weight is located in the car, where that weight gets transferred during cornering and how fast it gets transferred. Every thing you do to your car be it springs, shocks, or what not affects how the car handles its weight. Why is Weight so important to handling? Well that deals directly to how a tire makes traction. It’s a simple concept: the more weight on a tire, the more traction it will make. But this simple concept has a twist, and it goes: the amount of traction gained by increasing load decreases as more load gets placed on the tire. Meaning a tire with 100 lbs place on it will make 100lbs of traction, but a tire with 200 lbs on it will only make 180Lbs of traction a 10% loss. (This is an exaggeration but you get the idea).

Bold to emphasize my point. There IS a sweet spot for every car and every setup. Like I said, it's between the "slush box" and the "Formula 1" feel. It's all about weight transfer.

[FattyMcJ]

Originally Posted by thammy8991

Looks like you're on top of your suspension tactics!

Heres my revised plan!
1.) find a really good performance tire and get my alignment PERFECT!
2.) place my coils/sway bar order
3.) bling it the f*ck up!!

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL YOUR HELP!

Excellent choice! You'll be very pleased