Doing Some Bracing!!

[VanSi07]

Originally Posted by FattyMcJ

Good one, thanks for the laugh.
Bold to emphasize my point. There IS a sweet spot for every car and every setup. Like I said, it's between the "slush box" and the "Formula 1" feel. It's all about weight transfer.

Yeah, keep laughing. I will be glad to demonstrate why you are incorrect, it just requires a bit of math which I will get to later this evening.
Adding weight to a tire in a corner does indeed increase traction, but where does that weight come from? The inside tire. The result? A net loss of traction for the vehicle.

[FattyMcJ]

Originally Posted by VanSi07

Yeah, keep laughing. I will be glad to demonstrate why you are incorrect, it just requires a bit of math which I will get to later this evening.
Adding weight to a tire in a corner does indeed increase traction, but where does that weight come from? The inside tire. The result? A net loss of traction for the vehicle.

lol ok tough guy...you win

[VanSi07]

Nothing to do with being tough. Don't talk about what you don't know. Simple.

Anyways, for those who are interested, here's how it breaks down:

The best cornering power will always be available when all 4 wheels are equally loaded during cornering. This is of course impossible, but we try to get as close to that as possible.

As soon as a car goes into a corner, the vertical loading on the tires will change, and weight will be transfered from the inside to the outside tires. This will occur no matter what you do, even if the car has no roll at all. Now, a car that does roll will compound this, as the CG will shift, with a small increase in that weight transfer. The more roll you have, the more negative camber you must have to keep that tire parallel to the road. So, it's best to limit the roll angle as much as practical.

Back to the original point, a tire's efficiency drops as you ask it to support more and more weight. While it's might be making more raw traction on that one loaded wheel, it's the loss of relative traction that is a problem.
Imagine 2 wheels, both with a static 500lbs on them, and say they've got good tires capable of 700lbs of traction in this state. 1400lbs of traction in total and a cornering efficiency of 1.4 (700/500)
Now, transfer weight from one to the other. 700lbs on one wheel and 300 on the other. The traction on the loaded wheel has increased, but less than the amount that the traction has decreased on the other wheel. So, your net traction has dropped due to weight transfer.

Hopefully that made sense... haha, might have to edit that later.

[FattyMcJ]

Originally Posted by VanSi07

Nothing to do with being tough. Don't talk about what you don't know. Simple.

Clearly...



Congrats on wasting your time!

[VanSi07]

Hmm, trying to correct misinformation and discuss suspension dynamics... not a waste of time in my books.

Making personalized attack image macros on the other hand...

[tehcodeman]

Instead of arguing suspension dynamics, can't we all agree that bracing is useless on the 8thgen and leave it at that?

I think that's all the OP was asking for.

[bro2snakeaterblk08]

^if thats true its funny how there are a TON of braces for sale

I guess it comes down to money..

[tehcodeman]

Originally Posted by bro2snakeaterblk08

^if thats true its funny how there are a TON of braces for sale

I guess it comes down to money..

Because uninformed people buy them. Do you agree that there's plenty for sale out there that gives a placebo affect?

Braces can definitely work and stiffen up the chassis on older models. Just not the 8thgen.

[Jardiniboy]

Originally Posted by RGV-SI-

Negative camber and depending on where you race possibly some Toe in for better turn in or toe out for high speed stability

Actually the toe is the other way around. Toe in is for better high speed stability and toe out is for better turn in.

[07civicsi_sc]

My biggest thing is why is everyone being so technical. Its not like were driving F1 cars here, going around curves at 100mph. Were driving Civics.....dont think it matters THAT much. Im with the guy saying the 8ths civics already are good solid cars when coming to handling. Some good tires and coilovers and you should be set for what your going to be doing in a CIVIC

[Mehoron]

Originally Posted by 07civicsi_sc

My biggest thing is why is everyone being so technical. Its not like were driving F1 cars here, going around curves at 100mph. Were driving Civics.....dont think it matters THAT much. Im with the guy saying the 8ths civics already are good solid cars when coming to handling. Some good tires and coilovers and you should be set for what your going to be doing in a CIVIC

I take some longer turns at around 80. And let me tell you, I can hear my little LX twist.

This may not be the case with the EXs and SI's because they need extra support for the sunroof, but when my body starts to roll around a corner I can hear the chassis start to crackle and pop.

So would you honestly suggest that these braces are useless for me?

Edit: I also have plans to strip out many pieces of my car to lighten it up. Are you saying that I shouldn't brace when I start doing this as well?

[tehcodeman]

Originally Posted by Mehoron

I take some longer turns at around 80. And let me tell you, I can hear my little LX twist.

This may not be the case with the EXs and SI's because they need extra support for the sunroof, but when my body starts to roll around a corner I can hear the chassis start to crackle and pop.

So would you honestly suggest that these braces are useless for me?

Edit: I also have plans to strip out many pieces of my car to lighten it up. Are you saying that I shouldn't brace when I start doing this as well?

I would just ask why you're taking an LX around a turn @ 80mph...

[FattyMcJ]

Originally Posted by tehcodeman

I would just ask why you're taking an LX around a turn @ 80mph...

[Mehoron]

Originally Posted by tehcodeman

I would just ask why you're taking an LX around a turn @ 80mph...

I can't take SIs or EXs around a track, the SI is a bit too front heavy due to the few hundred pounds extra for the engine and has LSD which is not so great for a track. Both have sunroofs which are a no no on a track, I need to either tape both sides up with cardboard or replace them with a shell which is something I don't want to go through for a crappy 200cc extra of engine displacement, which means that a stripped out Civic LX is a better ticket for a track and cornering.

[Soccerking3000]

Originally Posted by Mehoron

I can't take SIs or EXs around a track, the SI is a bit too front heavy due to the few hundred pounds extra for the engine and has LSD which is not so great for a track. Both have sunroofs which are a no no on a track, I need to either tape both sides up with cardboard or replace them with a shell which is something I don't want to go through for a crappy 200cc extra of engine displacement, which means that a stripped out Civic LX is a better ticket for a track and cornering.

i can't tell if you are joking or not for the majority of that post...

[Ayodog]

This is coming from a guru suspension tuner for evos, but he said that there are select braces that DO help. I do not believe the civic is a more rigid vehicle by a drastic amount if at all. The three i remember of the few were rear strut bar, front underbody brace, and fender braces.

Now he just tunes suspensions for time attacks and tracking, so i'm sure his word doesnt mean too much, but i'll take his word =].

Also dont forget that while there are braces that dont do jack, they may change the FEEL of the car allowing 90% of us drivers who are complete noobs to push the car more with comfort, which in fact does improve the speed of the car simply due to the driver.

hope it makes some sense, its late.