Comparison: Stock Suspension vs. HFP Suspension vs. KONI/ Swift Springs Suspension

[a1j7g]

thank you very helpful

[mike_sho]

Im very much the same with you and have been working on finding the perfect suspension for a long time and what youve described is right.

You cant go too low , going too low just kills the suspension stroke. Causes bottoming which completely upsets the vehicle and causes major loss of traction. Also keep in mind a softer suspension can sometimes yeild better corner grabbing or traction due to it absorbing the imperfections in the road better. Lower will help center of gravity but Honda tried to get it as low as possible without sacrifice of comfort. You can only take it further by a margin.

If you had a perfectly 100% perfect flat glass like surface though you could really lower a car...but there isnt such a thing , even on a world class race course. So in that thought and for the fact of 90% of us buying these cars to run on the street...going stiff really isnt a good idea. Especially when you stiffen the rear as rear traction is very critical to the car because your only going to understeer if you go into a corner to hot (your fault). But too stiff a rear you can loose it in many situations and emergency situations and have a completely uncontrolable car. Reasons why I stay away from all Type-R / Mugen suspensions. Because Honda historically increases the rear stiffness in these vehicles for quicker on track turn in. On the street this can be scary in emergency abrupt like manuevers.

Either way to cut it short , heres somethings to think about.

1. Sway bar increases your spring rate as you corner , so you can run a soft spring and a sway bar and have less roll in the corners...but again is the stiff suspension in the corner going to help you. You will still get soft ride going straight though.

2. I too went with a linear moderately lowered spring and a koni yellow and adjusted the damper accordingly. This did net me the best ride possible in my old Honda. Keep in mind Honda built the suspension and geometry too. No need to try to out think millions in R&D. They do try to get the best of all worlds so tweaking it a little can net better results at the sacrifice of ride quality. Otherwise HFP is killer , even in autocross.

3. More negative camber in the rear will = more response overall. Negative camber will increase corner grip all around to a point. But will sacrifice straight line acceleration grip.

4. The best way to increase your handling performance with no negatives is with chassis braces. This creates a environment that allows the suspension to work the way it should without any outside forces acting on it. As the saying goes , you can tune your suspension and tires. Not your chassis.

5. Unsprung weight and weight in general is just bad for all things performance , comfort , efficiency. Only when you make things lighter to where the durability is lost is when this becomes of concern.

Great write up though. Just wanted to add a little extra. Was bored.

[ebdiam]

Originally Posted by mike_sho

4. The best way to increase your handling performance with no negatives is with chassis braces.

5. Unsprung weight and weight in general is just bad for all things performance , comfort , efficiency. Only when you make things lighter to where the durability is lost is when this becomes of concern.

From what I've read our car has little benefits from adding chassis braces. The added weight isn't worth the fractional increase in handling.

[dingbathero]

Kudos!

[kbye]

Originally Posted by mike_sho

Reasons why I stay away from all Type-R / Mugen suspensions. Because Honda historically increases the rear stiffness in these vehicles for quicker on track turn in. On the street this can be scary in emergency abrupt like manuevers.

unless you are talking about aftermarket type-r suspensions, this is untrue. while yes, type-r and mugen suspensions are stiffer overall, keep in mind that japan has winters too. they were designed for aggressive street use, but that doesn't mean they're dangerous. You will only see problems like this on aftermarket parts.

even mugen has sport suspensions which are similar to HFP suspension.

[mike_sho]

Originally Posted by kbye

unless you are talking about aftermarket type-r suspensions, this is untrue. while yes, type-r and mugen suspensions are stiffer overall, keep in mind that japan has winters too. they were designed for aggressive street use, but that doesn't mean they're dangerous. You will only see problems like this on aftermarket parts.

even mugen has sport suspensions which are similar to HFP suspension.

Were talking stock or mugen offered systems. Yes they are very similiar yet the rears are stiffer , great for a track based car.

Type-r vehicles arent meant just for daily drivers , nor mugens. The rears are stiffer and this causes a great track car but a more difficult DD. (take that comment sparingly). The cars can still be easily dd , but come certain situations it can be a life threating choice.

Just think , if all Honda has to come up with is a stiffer spring at no cost to them , why wasnt this overly stiff rear suspension stuck on the SI's.....was it just comfort?

Ill answer with the SI is the best balance of street and track , with more focus on the street. The type-r is the race breed version of that and when the world is watching they want its times to show grand. Its quite obvious if you have even been in an integra type-r or type-r swapped suspension. It can get a little hairy on the street , rain or cold weather in tense situations. Otherwise your none the wiser of a somewhat firmer ride.

A soft rear end is where its at...its not as direct or quick , keeping the rear planted (grip) is paramount in a street car. No matter the drive wheel orientation. In aspects of racing or street...Ive driven many different platforms. I have read the bible of suspension tuning books over and over and reference it quite often as well have tested it. Stiffer rear = more rotation.

[Roper]

+10 props to Extreme Thunder for the big picture, and Mike Sho for nuanced commentary.

Thanks to you both.

[blanka98]

Does anyone know the actual part number for these Koni struts? I'm sure they are "universal fitment" but paired to become a part # for Corsport.

[Xtreme Thunder]

Originally Posted by blanka98

Does anyone know the actual part number for these Koni struts? I'm sure they are "universal fitment" but paired to become a part # for Corsport.

Call Corsport and ask, easiest way. From what I hear they are friendly and should easily be able to answer that question for you.

The only 'actual' part number I know is the KONI direct part numbers.

[CivicEX]

Hope this is an OK place to post this question?

What do you think of these prices. Tax is NOT included. I thought they are pretty high myself. Please let me know what you think.

koni shocks $300 front, $320 rear
eibach pro kit: $200
install: $250



Tax not included.

[akronmusician413]

that sounds about right...install is the part that puts suspension mods like these sort of over the top regarding money

[Powered by Honda]

I hate how the konis require front adjustment. What if you screw up

[Xtreme Thunder]

Get some used/ blown oe dampers on here and use them for the KONIs. I did that and cost $35 shipped.

[07AlBLKeX305]

Does anybody have HFP with Nuespeed race springs? Or would it be better to get Koni yellow with the Nuespeed race springs? I have heard a lot about HFP with Eibach sportlines. Which I think might be the better set up. But I would like that 2inch drop and I'm pretty sure Nuespeed is better than Skunk2 when it comes to springs. Thanks in advance. If anybody can help me out with some insight.

[Powered by Honda]

You think Redshift will powder coat them and rust proof them aswell? hehe I live in canada the rust belt and would love to get this setup next summer!!!

[Xtreme Thunder]

That is a question you are going to have to ask Redshift directly.

[kbye]

I don't think rust proofing is necessary. If the stock housings can survive canadian winters then so can redshift. i've never heard a case where the stock suspension rusts and mine has yet to either. keep in mind i live in calgary where we sprinkle salt on roads like McD fries.

powdercoating yellow might not be a bad idea though

[Powered by Honda]

Originally Posted by kbye

I don't think rust proofing is necessary. If the stock housings can survive canadian winters then so can redshift. i've never heard a case where the stock suspension rusts and mine has yet to either. keep in mind i live in calgary where we sprinkle salt on roads like McD fries.

powdercoating yellow might not be a bad idea though

Im just over protective of my car. I live in Toronto canada mild winters.

Also, I usually drive my 01 accord coupe cuz it has winters. My SI is in the garage like 90% of the time.


Got it Feb and it has almost 4000km. hehe so little usage.

The rust proof I did to the SI is some new system and it looks like it hasent been rust proofed I complained to the dealer but he said it has been and I can bring it in to re-do it any time I want for the life of the car.

*usually rust proofing has like yellow gunk or black but this **** is clear and looks like its not there*

end rant////

[Geovone]

Okay, just got done reading the post and I am still kinda confused with some questions.
I wanted to get the HFP suspension kit, but wanted a bit more of a drop.

So I was looking at the KONI and spring combo, but this set up is gonna end up costing more correct?
Also, the KONI shocks and springs could be considered a custom set up opposed to that of coil overs?

[Xtreme Thunder]

Originally Posted by Geovone

Okay, just got done reading the post and I am still kinda confused with some questions.
I wanted to get the HFP suspension kit, but wanted a bit more of a drop.

So I was looking at the KONI and spring combo, but this set up is gonna end up costing more correct?
Also, the KONI shocks and springs could be considered a custom set up opposed to that of coil overs?

KONI and Spring will cost more than HFP, as stated in my O/P.

KONI provides shock dynos and most coilover companies do not, makes me wonder, and should make anyone else wonder too.

KONIs can be customized in the aspects of sending to KONI-na for custom valving services if desired. They are also rebuildable, you don't buy new KONI units when they exceeded their useful life, you send them in to be rebuilt. Not sure on cost as I have not done that yet.

Redshift/ KONI coilover suspension is fully customizable. You can in the end choose your valving, spring rates, spring length and height.

Knowing what you want out of the suspension in the end is most important.