Went to a shop and got it aligned....but..

[edrhee83]

Well, I had to SPC camber kit installed in the back and went to a shop today.
It looks like I need a front camber kit. Here is the specs.

Before alignment
Front Camber
Left: 0.9 degree Right: -0.2 degree
Front Toe
Left: -0.21 degree Right: -0.20 degree

After alignment
Front Camber
Left: 0.9 degree Right: -0.2 degree
Left: 0.02 degree Right: 0.01 degree

Rear
Before alignment
Camber
Left: -2.7 degree Right: -3.5 degree
Toe
Left: 0.38 degree Right: 0.59 degree

After Alignment
Camber
Left: -1.6 degree Right: -1.5 degree
Toe
Left: 0.14 degree Right: 0.09 degree

Front camber can't be adjusted unless I get the front camber kit.
Are these settings good or okay or not good??
Please let me know..I have no idea how alignment thing works.

[legendman]

The rear looks good to me, but the front left should be a little more negative. The specified range for the front is -0.5 to 0.5. I'm incredibly anal about my car so I got the front camber kit, but being 0.4 off isn't going to kill you.

[sickyute]

Originally Posted by legendman

The rear looks good to me, but the front left should be a little more negative. The specified range for the front is -0.5 to 0.5. I'm incredibly anal about my car so I got the front camber kit, but being 0.4 off isn't going to kill you.

wrong...

front is supposed to be at plus or minus 0.30 or somewhere in between

rear is off.....the rear is supposed to be at negative 1.3

that's Si spec....don't know what u drive...so i may be wrong...if' it's an Si that's the spec.

[wannapar3]

You should get the front kit and get that straightened out.
I don't know the specs for that model but 1.1 degree split from right to left is too much on camber. Hondas don't like much more than .3 degrees split.
Does your car pull to the left... it should looking at those numbers.
The front kits are cheap so it would be worth the investment.:)

[edrhee83]

Whenever I look at the rear wheels, it looks like they are bent..like negative camber...is it supposed to look like that?

[sickyute]

u are supposed to have negative camber in the back...and yes it will look bent inwards at the top....

and u supposed to have -1.3 in the back.

[kenchan]

can you write it out like this? your chart's hard to read. just give us your
after measurements;

FR camber
FR toe

FL camber
FL toe

RR camber
RR toe

RL camber
RL toe

[edrhee83]

FR camber -0.2 degree
FR toe 0.01 degree

FL camber 0.9 degree
FL toe 0.02 degree

RR camber -1.5 degree
RR toe 0.09 degree

RL camber -1.6 degree
RL toe 0.14 degree

[sickyute]

i'd go get it realigned if i were u.

front camber specs are too different IMO.

rear camber is fine...not sure if u should keep ur rear tow different like that..

u should get ur tow settings closest to 0 as possible...tow kills tires.
front tow is fine...rear tow i dunno...maybe u should fix.

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by edrhee83

FR camber -0.2 degree
FR toe 0.01 degree

FL camber 0.9 degree
FL toe 0.02 degree

RR camber -1.5 degree
RR toe 0.09 degree

RL camber -1.6 degree
RL toe 0.14 degree

huh... not sure why your front left camber is showing positive.
you will want to get the front camber bolt and get that
within 0.2 degrees of your right.

Also, the rear toe-in needs to be corrected. 0.09 + 0.14 will
make your car dog track. i bet your thrust angle is like 0.03.

I recommend you get the front camber bolts and have it re-aligned.
the rear camber doesn't seen too bad. if it bothers you appearance
wise, get the rods but your wear will be more from your toe angles
than the camber itself.

[honda93]

I typed this eons ago...

While I won't share hard numbers from my personal autocross alignment on my 2006 Civic LX Coupe (especially toe settings) as they are probably too radical for most "everyday" people anyhow, I will share this much with you all, so take notes...


First a disclaimer
Many dealerships or local shops use a shitty, overly broad range for setting alignment... Imagine using a Howitzer to dig a hole to plant a tree. Sure it gets the job done, but who the hell needed a 30' wide hole? Apparently many people on this board are still finding the job being done by dealerships subpar. I suggest you try to find a "race" shop in your area first and see if the dealership will reimburse you for the money spent at the custom shop. If not, that's OK because once a true alignment is done, you'll appreciate all the goodness Honda engineered into the new FG chassis in the first place.


Now for the tidbits of knowledge
* Make sure the shop has good equipment. It doesn't have to be new, but if the alignment heads (sensors that mount to the wheels) look like they've done time at a Fisher-Price market study, then it's probably time to move on to somewhere else. Also, the turning plates in the front and rear of the rack (the tires sit on these) shouldn't bind or be bound.

* Any good alignment should be done with the driver in the car (at the least, use ballast equalling that of the driver). Make sure the dealer or private shop will accomodate this request.

* Performing the caster sweep properly (a step of setting up the alignment after the sensors are physically on the car but prior to making changes to toe, camber, etc.) and doing it correctly is paramount.

* Due to static (stationary) weight transfer properties, we noticed that the RF and RR will actually gain MORE camber than the LF or LR when the driver enters the car. My suggestion, install the camber bolts 04512-SNA-305 in the side where you need to gain some negative camber and leave the non-adjustable OEM strut bolts in the side where there is already ample camber.

* Caster is affected by toe and camber on the car. If the toe and camber are better balanced, the caster will be fine. When things were off, my caster varied by .4*, once the alignment was done, it was .1* off.

Here's two shops I would trust...

All of NJ /southern NY state and 5 boroughs/ eastern PA/ southern CT/ all of DE/ northern MD areas:

EG Tire and Auto
Central NJ
Contact: Jeff Yatsko
(732) 329-6300
http://www.autox4u.com/egtire/index.htm

RedShift Motorsports
Northeast PA
Contact: Chris Shenefield
(570) 407-9100
http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com

Tell them Tony "Mario" Crea referred you.


Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[kenchan]

^^ good stuff, but for our daily drivers you can get a decent alignment
without anyone necessarily in the car. I too recommend you weigh down
the car to simulate the driver weight, but not necessary for regular daily
driven cars.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by kenchan

^^ good stuff, but for our daily drivers you can get a decent alignment without anyone necessarily in the car. I too recommend you weigh down the car to simulate the driver weight, but not necessary for regular daily driven cars.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

If you look at the number of topics dedicated to alignment issues, and read through even a few of them, I think you'll change your mind as well.

ALL the FG chassis cars have very quick steering racks and a high degree of positive caster. This equates into great fun on an autocross course (trust me), but it also requires that the driver PAY ATTENTION while driving.

Most people are used to Civics that weren't very involving to drive and are being taken by surprise that they can't drink coffee, play with their phones, and drive at the same time and expect the car to stay in its lane and not wander.

A spot-on alignment, even with very conservative factory settings, will make a huge difference on these cars. Try it.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[Z1 Performance]

Originally Posted by edrhee83

Well, I had to SPC camber kit installed in the back and went to a shop today.
It looks like I need a front camber kit. Here is the specs.

Before alignment
Front Camber
Left: 0.9 degree Right: -0.2 degree
Front Toe
Left: -0.21 degree Right: -0.20 degree

After alignment
Front Camber
Left: 0.9 degree Right: -0.2 degree
Left: 0.02 degree Right: 0.01 degree

Rear
Before alignment
Camber
Left: -2.7 degree Right: -3.5 degree
Toe
Left: 0.38 degree Right: 0.59 degree

After Alignment
Camber
Left: -1.6 degree Right: -1.5 degree
Toe
Left: 0.14 degree Right: 0.09 degree

Front camber can't be adjusted unless I get the front camber kit.
Are these settings good or okay or not good??
Please let me know..I have no idea how alignment thing works.

A front camber kit is probably a good idea from a pure performance standpoint, but it isn't necessary - I bet you can get the front camber to match from side to side by having someone pull the bottom of the front wheels OUT while tightening the strut bolt. There is always a tad of slop in the system...

[aircuellar]

Originally Posted by Z1 Performance

A front camber kit is probably a good idea from a pure performance standpoint, but it isn't necessary - I bet you can get the front camber to match from side to side by having someone pull the bottom of the front wheels OUT while tightening the strut bolt. There is always a tad of slop in the system...

I installed Si rims and suspension on my wifes LX. I just went to the shop to get my wifes car aligned and the rear camber is off. I read on these forums that if you were going to install the HFP or Si stock suspension, you would not need a camber kit for it. What is the problem?

[kenchan]

Interesting... but...

first off, my 06 EX is fine with its alignment out of the factory. Honda
DOES NOT put any weight in the car to simulate driver or passenger
weight. it works fine. How do you explain that?

About 99% of the time, alignments are done without simulated
driver/passenger weight. only for those like us who are picky
about alignments on certain cars do we weigh down the car.

I do agree that a good alignment is necessary especially after
lowering the car... but weighing down a car each time on a
street-only driven car? not always necessary.. You'll have
to pre-order the car with your simulated weight if that's
the case.

Originally Posted by honda93

I wholeheartedly disagree.

If you look at the number of topics dedicated to alignment issues, and read through even a few of them, I think you'll change your mind as well.

ALL the FG chassis cars have very quick steering racks and a high degree of positive caster. This equates into great fun on an autocross course (trust me), but it also requires that the driver PAY ATTENTION while driving.

Most people are used to Civics that weren't very involving to drive and are being taken by surprise that they can't drink coffee, play with their phones, and drive at the same time and expect the car to stay in its lane and not wander.

A spot-on alignment, even with very conservative factory settings, will make a huge difference on these cars. Try it.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[honda93]

Originally Posted by kenchan

first off, my 06 EX is fine with its alignment out of the factory... it works fine. How do you explain that?

Simple.

My car drove straight and true as well... I picked it up in October and did its first autocross-spec alignment in March (went through a NJ winter, read: potholes) as well with no issues.

Once on the rack however, all 4 wheels were set to different toe settings! Some were toe-out others were toe-in! Seriously, ALL 4 of them were off, but when driven the car was straight. It's no secret that the factory does an eyeball alignment (so you're right there) but once the car is compressed on the transporter, the numbers can go out a little more... Leading to the car tracking funny, or at other times, tracking just fine.

When the time comes for you to put your car on the rack, I hope you'll remember this thread and post your numbers.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[kenchan]

yeh, im thinking about lowering the car next spring and doing some
wheels, so will post before/after then.

but by that time my alignment might be off from regular driving...then
add the lowering and it'll be like (before/after).

Originally Posted by honda93

Simple.

My car drove straight and true as well... I picked it up in October and did its first autocross-spec alignment in March (went through a NJ winter, read: potholes) as well with no issues.

Once on the rack however, all 4 wheels were set to different toe settings! Some were toe-out others were toe-in! Seriously, ALL 4 of them were off, but when driven the car was straight. It's no secret that the factory does an eyeball alignment (so you're right there) but once the car is compressed on the transporter, the numbers can go out a little more... Leading to the car tracking funny, or at other times, tracking just fine.

When the time comes for you to put your car on the rack, I hope you'll remember this thread and post your numbers.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA