Pro-C + SC track video

[jrotax101]

I went to TGPR in alabama yesterday for a private track day. I decided to keep the KDW's on to see how they'd do, and replaced my pads with new hawk HP+ the day before.

Anyhow to cut a long story short, the tires are USELESS when it gets hot. I actually have a problem with my front right ( counter-clockwise track) and its actually splitting down the middle of the treadblock, so i'll be making a call to BFGoodrich some time today.

For those that know anything, my tire pressures when cold were 35/33 and when hot were 40/36.

So with that said, i was having some brake issues, and the tires were shit, here's a video of my 5th + laps round the track. Never been there before.

before turn 1 i was hitting 100 apex was 75mph , then 105 before turn two, then 105 down the back straight also, so its quite a small, twisty, technical track.

Vid looks slow, but it wasn't haha. I'm trying to find out my brake issues before going back with r-comps.

Jun262008-12edit_5.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[che]

Sweet! Thanks for posting the video. Now I need to find a nice track here in Saint Louis.

[Ayodog]

woo nice watch.

was it a bmw that you were gaining on? sorry if i'm way off.

[jrotax101]

yeh it was a stripped out 3series hatch back with BBK and ducting with I/E and software .. in the full video i pass them and have another 5 laps or so in that session, but photobucket has a 100mb limit

[Stylinhonda]

Looks good man. I hate how track vids always look so much slower on video than they really are lol. I'm loving my pro c's! Do you happen to have the Progress sway on there I forget.

Can't wait to see when you track with some better tires!

[jrotax101]

no, i chose to keep the sway bar stock.. the video looks slower than a NA si, and its supercharged. lol

i got a ride in a friends e36 m3, supercharged, 400rwhp @13psi, running r-comps with GC coilovers. that was immense, however i was 3 seconds off his laptime, which wasn't that bad considering the differences.

[Ayodog]

Originally Posted by jrotax101

yeh it was a stripped out 3series hatch back with BBK and ducting with I/E and software .. in the full video i pass them and have another 5 laps or so in that session, but photobucket has a 100mb limit

ahh ic ic.

good driving then, love seeing track vids of the si!

[AznSupastar]

nice, u will c my video shortly

[flamewing]

Great vib Robert. You make it look easy and effortless. Again an inspiration to local late comers to this world.

[Moose]

Beautiful Track ... , I like the configuration ...to bad there is no elevation changes to spice things up.

You looked good out there, with nice lines overall.

Most street tires just do not take the heat that is generated in track days ... and the fronts take a beating in particular on heavy FWD cars. They start to wear quickly and un-evenly ...scalloping mostly

One thing you may want to try is to run lower starting pressures ... as the pressure increase so the temps, and temps kill tires.

You probably do not want to see much higher than arround 35 PSI hot ... which means you will be starting arround 25psi cold with air and arround 30 psi if you have a nitrogen fill. The lower pressures will give up some initial turn in response, and may wear the outer edge of the tire more (bit more roll-over), BUT you will have broader / easy to use slip angles for better control at the limit, and the tires will not gain as much heat thus not go off AS fast ...however they will eventually go off.

I Have found that HP+ are marginal as a HPDE pad ... they work, but overheat and start going off (boil the fluid) requiring frequent brake bleeding. You may want to look at higher heat range combi pad, or goto a dedicated track pad/rotor setup.


Moose

Originally Posted by jrotax101

I went to TGPR in alabama yesterday for a private track day. I decided to keep the KDW's on to see how they'd do, and replaced my pads with new hawk HP+ the day before.

Anyhow to cut a long story short, the tires are USELESS when it gets hot. I actually have a problem with my front right ( counter-clockwise track) and its actually splitting down the middle of the treadblock, so i'll be making a call to BFGoodrich some time today.

For those that know anything, my tire pressures when cold were 35/33 and when hot were 40/36.

So with that said, i was having some brake issues, and the tires were shit, here's a video of my 5th + laps round the track. Never been there before.

before turn 1 i was hitting 100 apex was 75mph , then 105 before turn two, then 105 down the back straight also, so its quite a small, twisty, technical track.

Vid looks slow, but it wasn't haha. I'm trying to find out my brake issues before going back with r-comps.

[jrotax101]

Thanks Moose. This was only my 2nd DE in this car ( been racing for since i was 9 though in various catagories)

My tires had nitrogen in, i wanted to drive home with a decent amount of air in the tires, so thats why they were slightly higher than you said.

Fully agreed on the HP+ however, compared to road atlanta where i did my last one, this track is much harder on brakes as there is very little time to allow them to cool, and i wasn't particularly impressed. I ran superblue with them, so i was hoping they would last longer than they did. ( bled them the night before also).

Here is a pic of the front right tire splitting down the middle of the tread block

[Ayodog]

I have something similer to that splitting on my stock michilens. Theres like 17k miles on them though and i noticed it after doing some hard driving. About 4 6 minute runs...

With something like this can you get a refund of some sort from bfg? With basically new tires i really dont think that should be happening when theres still so much tread left.

butt i dont know much

[Moose]

Thats right !! - You have a Karting Background and it shows

The Hardest transistion from Karts I found is the turn-in response and the speed the car will "Set" into a corner. But I suspect I am preaching to the choir here :)

Nitrogen ... You can probaly get away with 30# drive to track pressure so you have better hot temps at the track.

If you are going to do regular track days it will be worth it to get a set of dedicated track rims with R-comps ... this will save your expensive street tires, and you will not have your track tires go off when abused.

I trashed a front set of full tread depth Hankook's( Street tires) a couple of weeks ago at the track when the rain dried up and they overheated before I changed to my Shaved R-compounds

I scallopped the outside edge of every tread block ... and the carcass was showing visible signs of heat damage ...

However I went out for longer on my ToyoRA1'a and they looked as good as when I started ..plus they were WAY more consistant lap over lap ... It is amazing how much track time you can put on a Toyo or Similar R-Compound before they cord and have to be replaced ..

Beides excessive tire wear / damage that street tires suffer on the track ...the biggest advantage a R-Compound offers is longer consistant performace before they get greasy and less predicatble.

A tight techincal track will "stress" a tire more than a longer more "speed" based track.



Oh Yeah ... the ATE SuperBlue is OK ... But I prefer the Motul 660 ... it seems to work better overall.


Moose

Originally Posted by jrotax101

Thanks Moose. This was only my 2nd DE in this car ( been racing for since i was 9 though in various catagories)

My tires had nitrogen in, i wanted to drive home with a decent amount of air in the tires, so thats why they were slightly higher than you said.

Fully agreed on the HP+ however, compared to road atlanta where i did my last one, this track is much harder on brakes as there is very little time to allow them to cool, and i wasn't particularly impressed. I ran superblue with them, so i was hoping they would last longer than they did. ( bled them the night before also).

Here is a pic of the front right tire splitting down the middle of the tread block

[06GAsi]

Great vid Robert!

[SOLO8thGenSi]

very nice video there Robert. sounds just heavenly. i miss "the track."
participated in a BMW performance reacing school as a High School graduation gift from my parents back in the summer of 2001.

sofakingfun!!!

thanks for sharing. sorry to hear about your tire troubles... hopefully BFG mans up about & offers to help out.

[jrotax101]

Here is the second half of the video, excuse the understeer in various places..

YouTube - TGPR 07 Si 4dr Supercharged

[jrotax101]

Moose -

Couple of questions, as i've never run on r-comps before, only dedicated slicks for single seaters.

Do you buy them pre-shaved/heat cycled.. maybe from a race team? Or do you buy them new and heat cycle them yourself?

I think im gonna go with motul next. My problem is, my pedal is getting spongy, i was having to brake 3 times into the first corner to build up the pressure and slow the car down.. i did everything by the book with bleeding etc etc, so i'm at a loss with that.

I may do the dedicated rotor/pad set up down the road, once i decide where i'm going with the car.

I appreciate your input :)

[Moose]

I buy my R-comps both ways ... When I am competing and/or need that extra edge (1/10's of a second) I will buy Fresh shaved and heat cycled RA-1's

When I am poor or need lapping HDPE tires I normally buy used shaved and heat-cycled tires (Take-offs) from race teams ... it is by far the best way to go for lapping etc.

The Speed Touring series in the US just changed there Spec Tire from a TOYO RA-1 to a 235-40-17 Toyo R888 .... so there should be a good supply of new and used 235-40-17 RA1's available.

The Toyo RA-1 is is a GREAT tire for lapping etc ... takes multiple heat cycles well .... is VERY predictable, and is very consistant, plus it wears quite well. Because they heat cycle well ..it makes them a "safe" used tire to buy as they are not totaly spent when you buy them used, unlike many other used r-comps. Yokohama also make a good lapping grade R-comp that heat cycles well ..but they are typically not as fast or forgiving as the Toyo's in my eyes.

The Motul RBF 660 will help ..I find that it is better than the ATE ... however the Pads are the bigest contributing factor to the excess heat build up so they should be addressed sooner rather than later. Perhaps a higher heat range pad that is still streetable might be a good choice.

It really comes down to economics ...if you are tracking your car occationally (couple times a year) then the wear on your tires/brake pads, and fluid will be cheaper than dedcated rims/tires/pads/rotors. But if you are tracking alot during the year it will be WAY cheaper to have a dedicated setup.

For example when I first started road-racing my EG hatch I was on Hawk HP+ ...I went thru three sets a pads and one set of rotors and about 20-30 bottles of brake fluid (had to bleed after every session) in one season.

I changed over the next year to Hawk Blues with dedicated rotors ...and they lasted 2 1/2 race seasons (years) and I only had to bleed once a weekend (5-6 bottles a year) !!!!!



Moose

Originally Posted by jrotax101

Moose -

Couple of questions, as i've never run on r-comps before, only dedicated slicks for single seaters.

Do you buy them pre-shaved/heat cycled.. maybe from a race team? Or do you buy them new and heat cycle them yourself?

I think im gonna go with motul next. My problem is, my pedal is getting spongy, i was having to brake 3 times into the first corner to build up the pressure and slow the car down.. i did everything by the book with bleeding etc etc, so i'm at a loss with that.

I may do the dedicated rotor/pad set up down the road, once i decide where i'm going with the car.

I appreciate your input :)

[Javi-Si]

nice driving... i can see where u issues began with tires and brakes... but even with all that I think you did a good job

[jrotax101]

Thank you - my issues began after 3-4 laps with the brakes... this was the 3rd session. I was having to pump them 3 times to get pressure into turn 1. The tires were just not made for the heat that day. Hopefully more videos to come with r-comps and dtc-60 pads.