Some S/C math for you guys running comptech kits

IWHINE · 12-20-2007, 02:11 AM

I have only been here a little while, but I figure I can post up some little bits of information I stumble across to help you guys out.

For you guys running this kit you are running a mp62 gen 4 Eaton blower. Pretty much the same blower as my car (cobalt ss/sc gen 5 m62) except for a slightly different outlet. Onto the important stuff.

Your s/c pulley size is 3.6", im not totally sure about this measurement as it was info from another thread, but your stock crank pulley is 5.8125". So you divide 5.8125" by 3.6" to give you your ratio between the to and you get
1.614583. You then take this number and multiply it by your engines max rpm ( 8000 with stg1 right?) and this gives you the rpms of the s/c = 12916 and some change.

So what does any of that mean? Well its actually pretty important because your blower is creating a lot of heat when you spin it hard. The max sustained rpm you want the blower at is 14000 rpms and a instantaneous rpm of 16,000.

When you pulley down more obviously more heat is to follow and heat is the enemy of power. The difference between your iat1 (intake air temps) and iat2 temps will start to grow more and more as you pulley down making a intercooler and anything to cool that charge of air down your friend.

Onto some more math. Lets take comptech stg2 then shall we. 3.3" s/c pulley and a 5.8125" crank your ratio = 1.76136 * 8400 rpms = 14795 and some change. So with that simple stage upgrade you have upped your blowers rpm to a screaming 14795 rpms with no way of cooling that charge.

When your cars intake temps get to hot your car will in turn start to pull timing because the air is to hot and will start causing knock. So what can we do to combat this power loss? Well a simple answer would be well the intercooler. Im not totally sure how far along anyone would be on that project, but once it is finished I would highly suggest it. Not only for the power to be had but to be safe as well. You guys aren't there yet but if you start to pulley down more and get into some higher rpms it also has negative effects on you blowers life.

A scan gauge would be a good investment as well, im not totally sure what parameters it measures for you guys but typically it has iats, knock, boost, and some other important parameters. If they ever came out with a tuner for your car i would highly suggest meth injection for the cooling as well as the increased ability to run more timing. A egt is also a handy tool to use to let you see the temps inside your motor because to much heat in there and motors have a tendency to go pop. You can be running a 11.5 afr no knock but if you don't know what’s going on in there and you pop a ring land that might answer your question.

If you guys have any specific questions i will try to be as helpful as possible.

Thanks for your time
Sean

bizzybearfigiblue · 12-20-2007, 03:30 AM

very good info on that... taught me something new about S/C

VQ Power · 12-20-2007, 09:43 AM

Great post Sean!

***APupNamedSmokey*** · 12-20-2007, 09:49 AM

Awesome Info

***Phalanx*** · 12-20-2007, 10:04 AM

Great info +repped

Random ? - how much whp does one usually gain from the Comptech S/C?

IWHINE · 12-20-2007, 12:05 PM

The stage one kit running bolt ons like intake and full exhuast is around 270 whp, the stage 2 kit is supposed to push it over 300 whp.

liquidr1 · 12-20-2007, 12:19 PM

i thinks we need to get RedshiftChris in here to shed some light on this issue, they have done extensive real world temperature testing of the eaton blower on the RSX-S (same engine) and determined that the blower was fine on our motors up to like 8 psi with out being cooled.

you can read all the info the got from testing the eaton roots and the lysholm twin screw here. they determined that the eaton wasnt a problem until 11 psi.

RedShift Message Board :: View topic - IAT Testing - New Info

***Phalanx*** · 12-20-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IWHINE

The stage one kit running bolt ons like intake and full exhuast is around 270 whp, the stage 2 kit is supposed to push it over 300 whp.

Hmm, can anyone else confirm this? I thought I saw a video of COMplex's 06 Sic w/ Competch (stage 1) S/C and it ran about 223whp... i could be wrong, though.

bizzybearfigiblue · 12-20-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhalanX

Hmm, can anyone else confirm this? I thought I saw a video of COMplex's 06 Sic w/ Competch (stage 1) S/C and it ran about 223whp... i could be wrong, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htec17

bear the car made 250 /165 at 89F and at 50F it made 274 /171 ssr header, fujita intake, greddy evo 4 psi the wideband reads 11.5 on wot cold or hot

***Phalanx*** · 12-20-2007, 12:58 PM

^ Thanks!

Not that it even matters for me b/c I have R18, lol

Highrev1 · 12-20-2007, 12:58 PM

The Eatons run hot at the edge of their efficiency map...8 psi peaked at 192 deg on the Roots charger....At the 12 psi boost level the only time it would stop making heat is when the MAP was around 10" vacuum and less. I wouldn't do more than 8psi on the roots without cooling..

liquidr1 · 12-20-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhalanX

Hmm, can anyone else confirm this? I thought I saw a video of COMplex's 06 Sic w/ Competch (stage 1) S/C and it ran about 223whp... i could be wrong, though.

Complex dynoed at 228 hp without a header and he lives up in the clouds at 5500 ft above sea level. So that has alot to do with his #'s.

***Phalanx*** · 12-20-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liquidr1

Complex dynoed at 228 hp without a header and he lives up in the clouds at 5500 ft above sea level. So that has alot to do with his #'s.

This is true... being in Denver that high above sea level would affect the power greatly. I completely overlooked that. Good catch!

jpjr0322 · 12-20-2007, 05:14 PM

nice info

liquidr1 · 12-20-2007, 05:37 PM

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that the eaton blower is equiped with a boost bypass valve so its not creating boost all the time. Its not like the blower is always running at extremely high temps when just cruising. I think you would have to beat the crap out of it for a prolonged period of time before any overly high temps come into play. I can say that after a spirited ride my eaton blower is warm to the touch but not extremely hot.

Highrev1 · 12-20-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liquidr1

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that the eaton blower is equiped with a boost bypass valve so its not creating boost all the time. Its not like the blower is always running at extremely high temps when just cruising.

Acutally at the higher boost levels it is still making heat even just cruising..

vtecmike1 · 12-20-2007, 05:49 PM

theres no boost at low cruise but its still creating heat because the small pulley is still spinning it but its just bypassing the boost right?
im thinkin 8-9 psi is about as much as one would risk without cooling.

realxlai · 12-20-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhalanX

Hmm, can anyone else confirm this? I thought I saw a video of COMplex's 06 Sic w/ Competch (stage 1) S/C and it ran about 223whp... i could be wrong, though.

the most consistant numbers ive seen on here is 257 with I/H/E..

IWHINE · 12-20-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liquidr1

i thinks we need to get RedshiftChris in here to shed some light on this issue, they have done extensive real world temperature testing of the eaton blower on the RSX-S (same engine) and determined that the blower was fine on our motors up to like 8 psi with out being cooled.

you can read all the info the got from testing the eaton roots and the lysholm twin screw here. they determined that the eaton wasnt a problem until 11 psi.

RedShift Message Board :: View topic - IAT Testing - New Info

I see a lot of great info there as well. Something that stuck out to me though is how everything was psi related, nothing was really talking about cfm. I run my car on a 2.5" pulley and i hit 19.5# but theoritically i should do 22.5#. I can port my head and blower and lose another 3~4 psi to, but i will be making a ton more power.

I like the iat graph though that is awesome as well. One question though i could not figure out were they both no intercooled?

IWHINE · 12-20-2007, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtecmike1

theres no boost at low cruise but its still creating heat because the small pulley is still spinning it but its just bypassing the boost right?
im thinkin 8-9 psi is about as much as one would risk without cooling.

Yeah, sounds about right for sea level people, but not everyone is at sea level my friend thats why i brought up the rpms thing.

12-20-2007, 02:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
IWHINE Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Macomb MI Age: 22 Posts: 277 Sean iTrader: 0 / 0%	Some S/C math for you guys running comptech kits I have only been here a little while, but I figure I can post up some little bits of information I stumble across to help you guys out. For you guys running this kit you are running a mp62 gen 4 Eaton blower. Pretty much the same blower as my car (cobalt ss/sc gen 5 m62) except for a slightly different outlet. Onto the important stuff. Your s/c pulley size is 3.6", im not totally sure about this measurement as it was info from another thread, but your stock crank pulley is 5.8125". So you divide 5.8125" by 3.6" to give you your ratio between the to and you get 1.614583. You then take this number and multiply it by your engines max rpm ( 8000 with stg1 right?) and this gives you the rpms of the s/c = 12916 and some change. So what does any of that mean? Well its actually pretty important because your blower is creating a lot of heat when you spin it hard. The max sustained rpm you want the blower at is 14000 rpms and a instantaneous rpm of 16,000. When you pulley down more obviously more heat is to follow and heat is the enemy of power. The difference between your iat1 (intake air temps) and iat2 temps will start to grow more and more as you pulley down making a intercooler and anything to cool that charge of air down your friend. Onto some more math. Lets take comptech stg2 then shall we. 3.3" s/c pulley and a 5.8125" crank your ratio = 1.76136 * 8400 rpms = 14795 and some change. So with that simple stage upgrade you have upped your blowers rpm to a screaming 14795 rpms with no way of cooling that charge. When your cars intake temps get to hot your car will in turn start to pull timing because the air is to hot and will start causing knock. So what can we do to combat this power loss? Well a simple answer would be well the intercooler. Im not totally sure how far along anyone would be on that project, but once it is finished I would highly suggest it. Not only for the power to be had but to be safe as well. You guys aren't there yet but if you start to pulley down more and get into some higher rpms it also has negative effects on you blowers life. A scan gauge would be a good investment as well, im not totally sure what parameters it measures for you guys but typically it has iats, knock, boost, and some other important parameters. If they ever came out with a tuner for your car i would highly suggest meth injection for the cooling as well as the increased ability to run more timing. A egt is also a handy tool to use to let you see the temps inside your motor because to much heat in there and motors have a tendency to go pop. You can be running a 11.5 afr no knock but if you don't know what’s going on in there and you pop a ring land that might answer your question. If you guys have any specific questions i will try to be as helpful as possible. Thanks for your time Sean

12-20-2007, 10:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
*Phalanx* VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Beverly, MA Age: 26 Posts: 17,117 Chris iTrader: 60 / 100%	Great info +repped Random ? - how much whp does one usually gain from the Comptech S/C? __________________ 2008 Supercharged Si - Traded 2008 Volkswagen GTI - Current 2008 Subaru STI - Current

12-20-2007, 12:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
*Phalanx* VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Beverly, MA Age: 26 Posts: 17,117 Chris iTrader: 60 / 100%	^ Thanks! Not that it even matters for me b/c I have R18, lol __________________ 2008 Supercharged Si - Traded 2008 Volkswagen GTI - Current 2008 Subaru STI - Current

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12-20-2007, 03:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
bizzybearfigiblue Senior Member Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 18,276 iTrader: 4 / 100%	very good info on that... taught me something new about S/C

12-20-2007, 09:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
VQ Power Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Minnetonka, MN Posts: 718 Josh iTrader: 1 / 100%	Great post Sean!

12-20-2007, 09:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
*APupNamedSmokey* Straight Sleeper... Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Miami, FL Age: 24 Posts: 3,695 Victor (S. FL Member #28) iTrader: 11 / 100%	Awesome Info

12-20-2007, 12:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
IWHINE Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Macomb MI Age: 22 Posts: 277 Sean iTrader: 0 / 0%	The stage one kit running bolt ons like intake and full exhuast is around 270 whp, the stage 2 kit is supposed to push it over 300 whp.

12-20-2007, 12:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
liquidr1 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Greensboro NC Age: 26 Posts: 3,920 Dustin iTrader: 3 / 100%	i thinks we need to get RedshiftChris in here to shed some light on this issue, they have done extensive real world temperature testing of the eaton blower on the RSX-S (same engine) and determined that the blower was fine on our motors up to like 8 psi with out being cooled. you can read all the info the got from testing the eaton roots and the lysholm twin screw here. they determined that the eaton wasnt a problem until 11 psi. RedShift Message Board :: View topic - IAT Testing - New Info

12-20-2007, 12:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
Highrev1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: PM me NothernNJ Detailing Posts: 3,912 iTrader: 1 / 100%	The Eatons run hot at the edge of their efficiency map...8 psi peaked at 192 deg on the Roots charger....At the 12 psi boost level the only time it would stop making heat is when the MAP was around 10" vacuum and less. I wouldn't do more than 8psi on the roots without cooling..

12-20-2007, 05:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
jpjr0322 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Conshohocken, Pa Age: 26 Posts: 294 Jeff iTrader: 2 / 100%	nice info

12-20-2007, 05:37 PM	#15 (permalink)
liquidr1 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Greensboro NC Age: 26 Posts: 3,920 Dustin iTrader: 3 / 100%	Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that the eaton blower is equiped with a boost bypass valve so its not creating boost all the time. Its not like the blower is always running at extremely high temps when just cruising. I think you would have to beat the crap out of it for a prolonged period of time before any overly high temps come into play. I can say that after a spirited ride my eaton blower is warm to the touch but not extremely hot.

12-20-2007, 05:49 PM	#17 (permalink)
vtecmike1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Simi Valley Age: 25 Posts: 3,562 Mike iTrader: 3 / 100%	theres no boost at low cruise but its still creating heat because the small pulley is still spinning it but its just bypassing the boost right? im thinkin 8-9 psi is about as much as one would risk without cooling.