WTF? BISTOG forums state synthetic oil not worth it!

[IceWindius]

ARRRRRGHHHH!!!! I'm getting fustrated with all this back and forth on wether to go synthetic or not and when to do my oil changes. Jesus...whata ass ache.

New Honda Civic. What synthentic oil + changes? - Bob Is The Oil Guy

[mfisher1967]

Some BITOG members prefer to use synthetics no matter how short the oil change interval will be, others want to drive extra miles between each oil change to justify the extra dollars associated with using synthetic engine oil. My take on it is that synthetic oil offers better protection over a wide range of driving conditions. Synthetics are more resistant to breaking down and can give a slight bump in fuel economy. Not all synthetics are created equal, however, but most agree that Pennzoil Platinum is an excellent choice for those wanting to use a readily available product. As for the drain interval, follow the Maintenance Minder no matter which oil you end up using. Remember, oil changes are typically the least expensive part of car ownership, so don't worry about spending a few extra dollars on them.

[volvo9]

My take on oil, use whatever you want.

Some people will only use synthetic, some use dino oil. No matter what, I've never seen an engine failure that has been blamed on oil when the oil has actually been changed at a decent interval and not every "time I get around to it" which can easily be 12k miles for some people.

[distrbd]

I really don't have much of a choice but to use synthetic,I live in Toronto where the temp goes way below zero in winter and synthetic oil provides the best protection for the money.

[sandyscivic]

I have used amsoil since 1984 and I would not use anything else, I once had my oil analyzed at 13 or 14 thousand miles and the oil was still good. You cannot have regular oil stay good for that long. Amsoil will keep your engine cleaner, all sorts of good stuff, and withstand the heat better. When you check your oil you have to let if sit overnite to get the correct reading. Check it out

[nayilsi]

BITOG members and their research.....**** em srsly

a civic made 950K with castrol syntec....highly doubt it would have made that far without synth

[lush]

Pennz Platinum > Mobile 1

[IceWindius]

I've decided given the potential benefits outweigh the extra costs incurred from switching to synthetic. When the time comes, my Civics R18A will be pumping Mobil 1 EP blood through its veins.

[nayilsi]

Originally Posted by lush

Pennz Platinum > Mobile 1

Thanks for your Opinion.

[lush]

Originally Posted by nayilsi

Thanks for your Opinion.

That would be justified if I was actually offering an opinion. M1 just isn't what it was in the 90's, and goes the same with other hydrocracked oils. I run a full-synthetic Elf Excelium. At $40/5L, it might be a little much but I don't think I'd run anything other than Amsoil.

[Grizam303]

After reading the four pages over there, I get the impression that Honda engines will outlast the car, and the oil won't have an effect within a normal usage life (100k mi ballpark). The numbers are just for illustration, but the way I read their commentary, an engine will last 450k miles on dino, and maybe 475k on synthetic. If you expect to have the car for 100k tops, then it doesn't really matter.

Note: I am not an oil guy, just paraphrasing the way I read the posts on the other forum.

[razasasin]

Both of my rides are getting mobile 1 just because I plan on keeping them forever... SO it's worth a few extra buck to give them a chance at a longer life.

You can see the difference when changing oil , dino vs synth - the synth is visibly fresher at the same interval..

[boltuprite]

I also live In Toronto, and I.M.H.O. synthetic oil is a complete waste of money if you change your oil every 5000kms.

[nayilsi]

Originally Posted by lush

That would be justified if I was actually offering an opinion. M1 just isn't what it was in the 90's, and goes the same with other hydrocracked oils. I run a full-synthetic Elf Excelium. At $40/5L, it might be a little much but I don't think I'd run anything other than Amsoil.

So 90s oil was better ....than what we have today ?

you sound like u grew up with synthetic oil blends.

[televascular]

Originally Posted by nayilsi

So 90s oil was better ....than what we have today ?

you sound like u grew up with synthetic oil blends.

Modern SM-rated oils have come a long way in lubrication technology, and basically any oil will do your engine justice... unless you beat on it.

I think the poster is referring to the recent controversy surrounding Mobil 1's supposed formulation change. While in the past M1 was a solid performer due to its mostly Group IV PAO base stock, it is said that the new formulation uses less of it and as a result is less robust than it used to be.

Again, these are internet rumors that echo around, without much info to support it. Even if it is true, the reformulated M1 is plenty for most people. Also, it should be noted that superior base stocks do not automatically guarantee a higher quality oil, since the balance of additives has a large impact on an oil's performance. It is entirely possible that XOM has lessened the PAO content of M1 but made the oil better overall through the proper balancing of additives.

That said, I use Amsoil 0W-30 and I'm hoping to increase my interval to 8,000mi or more, as substantiated by future oil analyses. Though I have faith in Amsoil products, I'm not sure if I believe the advertised claim of 17,500mi intervals under severe service.

35,000mi intervals under normal service, they say. Right. Even with an EaO filter, it's kinda hard not to be skeptical. I'll be posting UOAs at BITOG under the same username, keep an eye out.

[nayilsi]

Originally Posted by televascular

Modern SM-rated oils have come a long way in lubrication technology, and basically any oil will do your engine justice... unless you beat on it.

I think the poster is referring to the recent controversy surrounding Mobil 1's supposed formulation change. While in the past M1 was a solid performer due to its mostly Group IV PAO base stock, it is said that the new formulation uses less of it and as a result is less robust than it used to be.

Again, these are internet rumors that echo around, without much info to support it. Even if it is true, the reformulated M1 is plenty for most people. Also, it should be noted that superior base stocks do not automatically guarantee a higher quality oil, since the balance of additives has a large impact on an oil's performance. It is entirely possible that XOM has lessened the PAO content of M1 but made the oil better overall through the proper balancing of additives.

That said, I use Amsoil 0W-30 and I'm hoping to increase my interval to 8,000mi or more, as substantiated by future oil analyses. Though I have faith in Amsoil products, I'm not sure if I believe the advertised claim of 17,500mi intervals under severe service.

35,000mi intervals under normal service, they say. Right. Even with an EaO filter, it's kinda hard not to be skeptical. I'll be posting UOAs at BITOG under the same username, keep an eye out.

I find Amsoil and K&N claims funny.

K&N advertises increase in power and tq
Amsoil advertises better products than anybody

[IceWindius]

Originally Posted by lush

Pennz Platinum > Mobile 1

Funny, I found this and Penz Plat didn't do as well in comparison

AMSOIL - Comparative Motor Oil Testing

[lush]

Originally Posted by IceWindius

Funny, I found this and Penz Plat didn't do as well in comparison

AMSOIL - Comparative Motor Oil Testing

Funny, I found your quote coming from a direct, and competent, competitor quite the fallacy. Mobile 1 doesn't use a PAO base stock as they used to. And it's up to debate whether that means anything, anymore. It's been discussed and debated but I haven't found pure results.

I'm going from experience with what I've used in my sport bikes, wakeboard boats and personal vehicles. I think that for an easier-to-find "synthetic" that isn't a PAO, would be Penn Platinum (over M1). It's all branding either way. I've ran it and loved it, therefor, I prefer it type of thing. My dad always used Penn Plat when he changed my oil. Growing slightly older, I experimented and stuck with a few. I used Excelium in my Mazda and still use Amsoil in my 996 bike.

Regardless, when my first oil change comes up in my 08 Si, I will be going with some Amsoil unless I can find some Shell Helix or Excelium for a decent price/availability.

[fishmonger]

These cars do not need synthetic oil. They won't see any benefit. Even my 1989 Jetta turbo diesel didn't need synthetic and no mechanic I talked to advised even bothering to use synthetic. That car had 400k km on it. The only real time you need synthetic is in a turbo that spins to extreme rpms where the oil is subjected to extreme heat. You people are just throwing your money away.

[televascular]

Originally Posted by lush

Mobile 1 doesn't use a PAO base stock as they used to.

Mobil 1 does contain Group IV, but the amount is in debate. Back when this was the rage of BITOG, many people emailed XOM with questions regarding the formulation change. The only thing they would confirm is that M1 still uses a certain percentage of PAO basestocks, which they wouldn't disclose.

Originally Posted by fishmonger

These cars do not need synthetic oil. They won't see any benefit. Even my 1989 Jetta turbo diesel didn't need synthetic and no mechanic I talked to advised even bothering to use synthetic. That car had 400k km on it. The only real time you need synthetic is in a turbo that spins to extreme rpms where the oil is subjected to extreme heat. You people are just throwing your money away.

Yes, 80% of cars on the road will see little benefit from synthetics. However, plenty of people have substantiated Amsoil's extended interval claims through oil analyses (though the mileage usually falls a bit short of what is advertised). Many passenger cars engines are easy enough on oil to take advantage of such intervals and save money in the long run. Fleet vehicles (generally county vehicles, trucking/school bus companies) have realized a meaningful savings in oil and gasoline purchases through the use of synthetics and certain additives. In these circumstances, it is the skeptic who is too complacent to challenge their own preconceived notions who is throwing their money away.

However, synthetic success stories are not typical; they can easily be a waste of money if your driving style, engine load, and frequency of use do not demand it. But the drama surrounding the use of synthetics is not always factually relevant, but rather a practice of spending a little extra money on something you love.