it's official, dealers hate aftermarket MTF

[08smokeSi]

Originally Posted by b0yd07

Two questions for you guys:

1) You said Royal Purple LOOKS different than the norm. Does AMSoil look/smell/taste different? I'm kind of worried now. If I don't mention it like you did, think they'd notice?

2) If they DO find out, does this go down on my Honda permanent record where all dealers can find out?

I am pretty much sure that Honda has a record about your problems...that's way the second dealership denied service...however, unless they can prove that anything else than Honda recommended lubricants will actually damage your car (good luck Honda with that!) they are SOL...since you brought this upon yourself you will need dish out some cash to fix it...contact Honda and give them a change to alleviate the situation with the dealership...if they give you a hard time (Honda) then contact a consumer laywer in your area and start a law suit...Honda will not go to court and will fix your car under the warranty...if you go to trial, Honda will loose and they will also cover your expenses.

[Agnt004]

Originally Posted by redvtech07

I was just thinking about changing my MTF to AMSOIL. I came upon this thread... Damn that sucks man. This might help...Out of the Owners MANUAL

If Honda MTF is not available, you may use SAE 10w-30 or 10w-40 viscosity motor oil with the API Certification Seal that says for Gasoline engines as a temporary replacement. However, motor oil does not contain the proper additives and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. ect.

I found this on pg 233 and 234 of the book.

So it sounds like you can put other things in there...IDK. Im going to the dealership today to ask for certain.

Good luck

I changed my tranny fluid half a year ago and my car works great, no grinds, stiffness, popping out of gear, nothing. But how the **** could the manual say using an aftermarket motor oil in the tranny is okay, but using an aftermarket mtf is not!? How is motor oil better than manual transmission fluid!

Also, who here is running aftermarket MTF and still has grinds of gear pop outs? How soon after your tranny started messing up did you change the fluid, and did it help for a little while and then stop working, or did it just not work altogether? And what MTF did you put in? Thanks, just trying to see if my fluid change will be temporary or if it is in fact a permanent fix if it is done in time (before the tranny gets too messed up with all the grinds).

[redvtech07]

Hey guys I just got back from the dealership and had asked them about changing the MTF. They told me to use Honda oil. When I asked them about using a different oil such as Amsoil he said he wouldnt recommend it. He could not say if it would void my warrenty. But the reason he stated I had to us that Oil was due to the additives in the Honda Oil.

So I went to an Amsoil dealership and asked him about it. He told me the additives are EXACTLY THE SAME in the 5-30 Syncromesh and the protection is probably a lot better.

So they dealership is just wanting us to buy their product.....or afraid of people putting the wrong thing in the tranny.

I am not sure about Royal Purple. but I would guess if its formulated for that car It would have the same Additives...duh.

[08Si_C]

Originally Posted by MellowGato

Livermore Honda said the same thing to me when I first complained about the 3rd gear issue. They told me that any manual transmission fluid other than honda brand will void the transmission warranty.

Anyone have any experience with Dublin Honda?

I am from Dublin but never been there for services. They charge my brother's S2k more because that is a S2k.
I have filled a complain again those salespersons when I tried to buy my car due to their BS about summer tires (They told me it is free and then tried to charged me $600 when I was about signing the paperwork).

I went to San Leandro Honda for service. They charge me same price even I bring my TL or TSX over there. The service manager set up an appointment to diagnostic my 3rd gear without any questions.

[dragonzsoul]

Originally Posted by b0yd07

Two questions for you guys:

1) You said Royal Purple LOOKS different than the norm. Does AMSoil look/smell/taste different? I'm kind of worried now. If I don't mention it like you did, think they'd notice?

2) If they DO find out, does this go down on my Honda permanent record where all dealers can find out?

not sure about Amsoil, i'm sure someone will answer that hopefully. if not, just open a bottle and take a look/taste? haha

not sure about that, maybe? although i'd like to think/hope that it would only be in the extreme cases (ie. modding your car with CAI/headers/turbo stuff)

Originally Posted by 08LX

Buddy I've read most of this and man this sucks ass. I used to think that honda was the shit of all shit but it seems like they are leaving us all hanging and dangling in the wind here. Piss poor paint, Crappy transmissions, DBW that sucks ass. Whats next? Low mileage engine explosions like domestic p.o.s cars? Honda knows what we are gonna do to these cars. If they didn't the Si never would have become what it did. The accountants got hold of them and showed them how not to pay. Man this blows. Maybe I'll try to to get my Integra back..........naaaaaaaaa I still like my car but honda is being a bitch. good luck man.

thanks for reading, appreciate it! it does suck ass.. yeah honda's a bitch for sure..

Originally Posted by 10Hondas

I think that was me, my dealer put the Amsoil in for me and did not say anything at the time about warranty issues; this was back in Feb of 07. I have not had any problems with grinding since the fluid was put in except for a little stiffness going into third when cold.

good luck bro.. hope the Amsoil stays good!

Originally Posted by redvtech07

I was just thinking about changing my MTF to AMSOIL. I came upon this thread... Damn that sucks man. This might help...Out of the Owners MANUAL

If Honda MTF is not available, you may use SAE 10w-30 or 10w-40 viscosity motor oil with the API Certification Seal that says for Gasoline engines as a temporary replacement. However, motor oil does not contain the proper additives and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. ect.

I found this on pg 233 and 234 of the book.

So it sounds like you can put other things in there...IDK. Im going to the dealership today to ask for certain.

Good luck

thanks for reading the manual, i haven't gotten around to it. wow you can use engine oil.. but not royal purple, that's ****** up in so many different ways..

Originally Posted by 10Hondas

If they are going to deny warranty coverage for non oem trans fluid, then they should also deny coverage for non oem oil! How many dealers use Honda oil for thier oil changes?

ssshhh, don't give hondas ideas. next thing you know they'll void our engines too! ROFL

Originally Posted by redvtech07

Thats the funny thing, When I looked in the book the only thing it said about the engine oil was that it should be 5-30 and have the API seal on it. I didn't say ANYTHING about being Honda oil.

So why are they being anal about the tranny

it's honda, anal bastards.. how about i stick my foot up their ass?

Originally Posted by 08smokeSi

I am pretty much sure that Honda has a record about your problems...that's way the second dealership denied service...however, unless they can prove that anything else than Honda recommended lubricants will actually damage your car (good luck Honda with that!) they are SOL...since you brought this upon yourself you will need dish out some cash to fix it...contact Honda and give them a change to alleviate the situation with the dealership...if they give you a hard time (Honda) then contact a consumer laywer in your area and start a law suit...Honda will not go to court and will fix your car under the warranty...if you go to trial, Honda will loose and they will also cover your expenses.

actually, the 2nd dealership denied me without knowing my name. haha so technically i could go there still. they don't know who i am after all i wasn't that dumb lol. my guess is that honda will claim something about the additives in the honda MTF.. does urea from dog piss count as one? yeah i expect that i'll have to pay a decent amount to fix this down the road =(

i'm debating whether or not to talk to Honda NA.. if that goes wrong, i'll be in the computer for sure. could be bad for me. do you really think i have a chance with the law suit? damn i need to check if royal purple is API certified.





thanks for everyone's input/help! really appreciated guys/gals!

Originally Posted by redvtech07

Hey guys I just got back from the dealership and had asked them about changing the MTF. They told me to use Honda oil. When I asked them about using a different oil such as Amsoil he said he wouldnt recommend it. He could not say if it would void my warrenty. But the reason he stated I had to us that Oil was due to the additives in the Honda Oil.

So I went to an Amsoil dealership and asked him about it. He told me the additives are EXACTLY THE SAME in the 5-30 Syncromesh and the protection is probably a lot better.

So they dealership is just wanting us to buy their product.....or afraid of people putting the wrong thing in the tranny.

I am not sure about Royal Purple. but I would guess if its formulated for that car It would have the same Additives...duh.

[schield]

Added not that I just remembered. A few months ago, I contacted the service manager from Zimbrick Honda and told him about my third gear issues. He suggested that I change my MTF to GM Syncromesh. He would not have done something to my car that would have voided my warranty; I didn't get it done however since I was waiting for the permanent fix.

[dragonzsoul]

Originally Posted by schield

Added not that I just remembered. A few months ago, I contacted the service manager from Zimbrick Honda and told him about my third gear issues. He suggested that I change my MTF to GM Syncromesh. He would not have done something to my car that would have voided my warranty; I didn't get it done however since I was waiting for the permanent fix.

not sure then.. i guess it depends on different dealers? that's retarded though, i hate mine..

[M. F. Ruckus]

Here is some good info if your warranty is voided because you used after-market MTF.

AMSOIL: Warranty Laws: Learn The Federal Law & Become and Informed Consumer

Sorry I put it in big letters. I just felt that this is important info and wanted to catch peoples attention.

[redvtech07]

In addition, the Federally mandated Magnuson-Moss act states that a manufacturer may not require the use of a specific brand of aftermarket product unless it is provided free of charge.

Thats great info!

Lets all go to the stealerships and demand MTF changes!

[Agnt004]

Originally Posted by M. F. Ruckus

AMSOIL: Warranty Laws: Learn The Federal Law & Become and Informed Consumer

Sorry I put it in big letters. I just felt that this is important info and wanted to catch peoples attention.

That is great info! The OP needs to go back to Honda and get the service denial in writing and send it in! Honda is breaking the law!

[dragonzsoul]

Originally Posted by M. F. Ruckus

Here is some good info if your warranty is voided because you used after-market MTF.

AMSOIL: Warranty Laws: Learn The Federal Law & Become and Informed Consumer

Sorry I put it in big letters. I just felt that this is important info and wanted to catch peoples attention.

you're freaking awesome! thanks for the great find!!

Originally Posted by redvtech07

Thats great info!

Lets all go to the stealerships and demand MTF changes!

how would that work? lol

Originally Posted by Agnt004

That is great info! The OP needs to go back to Honda and get the service denial in writing and send it in! Honda is breaking the law!

oh yes, you know it. then as soon as i get it in writing, i'll put out the article. bitches!

[redvtech07]

In addition, the Federally mandated Magnuson-Moss act states that a manufacturer may not require the use of a specific brand of aftermarket product unless it is provided free of charge

To be sure, many original equipment manufacturers would like you to believe you can only use their products. However, it’s a violation of the consumer protections set forth in the Magnuson-Moss Act, unless they’re willing to provide you those products free of charge.

So unless they want us to use Honda oil exclusively they have to pay for it by law. Thats the way I read that.

[pkthang]

Originally Posted by schield

Added not that I just remembered. A few months ago, I contacted the service manager from Zimbrick Honda and told him about my third gear issues. He suggested that I change my MTF to GM Syncromesh. He would not have done something to my car that would have voided my warranty; I didn't get it done however since I was waiting for the permanent fix.

From what my trusty mechanic tells me, Amsoil is the SAME as GM syncromesh. I was actually short on amsoil when he helped me do mtf change at 4k miles, he used a little bit of gm syncromesh to top off the mtf.

Also, I brought my car to oakland honda and complained of the same notchiness. The foreman test drove my car with me, said he felt the notchiness sometimes in 2nd and 3rd gears but it wasn't everytime. He said every single one he test drives feels the same way. He said for me to drive it for awhile and see how it feels around 10k miles. I'm around 8k miles and it's actually pretty smooth now, for now. He even said my car was the smoothest si he's ever driven (but of course he'd say that).

[schield]

Originally Posted by pkthang

From what my trusty mechanic tells me, Amsoil is the SAME as GM syncromesh. I was actually short on amsoil when he helped me do mtf change at 4k miles, he used a little bit of gm syncromesh to top off the mtf.

Also, I brought my car to oakland honda and complained of the same notchiness. The foreman test drove my car with me, said he felt the notchiness sometimes in 2nd and 3rd gears but it wasn't everytime. He said every single one he test drives feels the same way. He said for me to drive it for awhile and see how it feels around 10k miles. I'm around 8k miles and it's actually pretty smooth now, for now. He even said my car was the smoothest si he's ever driven (but of course he'd say that).

May as well be. I love Amsoil's products. They're a very good company, helpful as well. They're based in Wisconsin, so you can't beat that either.

[dragonzsoul]

Originally Posted by redvtech07

So unless they want us to use Honda oil exclusively they have to pay for it by law. Thats the way I read that.

ohhh, ok.. hmm.. it seems that way right now doesn't it? but honda MTF isn't aftermarket.. so i don't know..

[M. F. Ruckus]

Originally Posted by dragonzsoul

ohhh, ok.. hmm.. it seems that way right now doesn't it? but honda MTF isn't aftermarket.. so i don't know..

So basically, Honda would have to supply us with free Honda MTF because it is the only fluid we can use on our cars without voiding the warranty.

[redvtech07]

[mrdimsum]

oh yeah..... thats write, A FORMAL WRITEN PAPER OF VOIDING WARRANTY MUST BE REQUIRED, THEY CAN'T JUST SAY VOID, must be in formal writing and defining the reason of voiding...........

[dragonzsoul]

Originally Posted by M. F. Ruckus

So basically ,they Honda would have to supply us with free Honda MTF because it is the only fluid we can use on our cars without voiding the warranty.

but doesn't this apply only to aftermarket MTF? the way i interpreted what the OP of the quote said was that if honda specified an aftermarket fluid for our car, they would have to supply us with it for free. if this applies to their dog piss MTF, man this'll be awesome! free MTF for life hehe

[BigT]

I think that this is completely rediculous.

You have a problem which has (FINALLY) been acknowledged by Honda and for which there is a TSB. And they are refusing to fix it because you chanded the MTF.

This is totally wrong. Even if there was no law about them requiring you to use their own oil this would be wrong. But as people above have posted, there is a law.

The repair and parts info about cars is propriatary and they have a right to keep certain information away from aftermarket companies for a certain period of time. However, only if those things are covered under warranty. For example, they can't refuse to release filter and fluid requirements for maintanence unless they provide that maintanence for you free of charge. In this way, they cannot force you to come to them for service and charge you for it. It is part of the Right to Repair act. You have the right to repair/maintain your own vehicle, or take it to whoever you want for repair.

They also aren't allowed to require you to use their own brand of fluids/parts to retain your warranty unless they provide them for free. They are allowed to require that the fluids/parts meet certain requirements, and they usually do have a certain spec. that fluids have to meet. If they don't release the requirements (maybe to protect a patented fluid mixture) they have to provide it free of charge. They can't require you to buy their stuff.

The only problem you might have is if they can prove that the fluid you used didn't meet their requirements (very unlikely, doesn't Royal Purple say it meets Honda requirements?). It is up to them to release the requirements, but if aftermarket companies don't make anything that meets it that is not their problem. This is simply so you can't, for example, use non-detergent oil in the engine and then take the car to them and expect them to repair your engine when it fails.