Honda TSB 08-020 April 12, 2008 (3RD GEAR)

[cderalow]

Originally Posted by Special Ringpop

To be honest, your guess is as good as mine. I suspect the part has never been changed in any of the iterations it has been in (the RSX-S, the Accord 6MT, etc) until recently (noted by the 2008 VIN range).

I suspect that the faulty syncro is present on all 2006-2007 (and some 2008) Si models. Why some of us have problems and others don't is utterly beyond me. There are so many potential reasons with no definitive answers.

My feeling on it is this: I think Honda started manufacturing the 2008 Si models (after the TSB's VIN range) with the new parts. This effectively tells me they know the part is faulty. I think that right there warrants ALL 2006+ transmissions being ripped apart, whether its problematic or not. They've admit, through action, that there is a fauly syncro in 3 and 4 (gears).

The process has not, and I doubt will, change. You have to go to the dealer, get them to replicate it (easier said than done, it took me almost 20 visits and much frustration), and then they will take care of it.

while you might think it's a totally faulty part, there's a large potential that the issue stems from a manufacturing defect on the part itself that might be within manufacturing tolerances.

it could be something as simple as 1/1000th of an inch difference in how something is machined (or even as close as 1/10000th).

the original parts might all be within the previous tolerances, but you might have a few defects in the parts as always happens in manufacturing. those that have the issues, might have something that's out of whack by that little, and those that don't might have something that's within the tolerances, and is a little more lose than the ones with problems...

it's a guess.

what says that it's not a total recall... is that not all vehicles are effected by it.

[onesweetsivic]

Originally Posted by Xenin

i was at Honda last week and the guy there didnt see anything.

Me too! Grrr.... ***holes

[galaxygrey13]

what if i dont have a warranty?

[marc-o-lishuz]

Originally Posted by galaxygrey13

what if i dont have a warranty?

You exceeded the mileage quota for the warranty? Then I suggest you call up Honda America and open up a case number. In most cases, they'll do a "goodwill" consideration and perform the necessary repairs free of charge. But you need authorization from head office first.

[nevetSi]

Should I take off my comptech short shifter before I take in my Si?

And it states:
"Drive a known-good vehicle under the same conditions as the customer's complaint, and compare the shift quality. If the customer's vehicle has noticeable shift quality probelms, replace the 3rd gear set."

Does the above statement mean they have to replicate the 3rd gear grind/pop out for it to be fixed?

Thanks.

[GoHuskies]

Stuff like these make me glad I don't drive a stick.

[sc37]

Sad to see they didn't list anything for my LX!!! I've had the grinds in 2nd and 3rd as well as it locking me out of 1st. I just touched 800 miles too......

[marc-o-lishuz]

Originally Posted by sc37

Sad to see they didn't list anything for my LX!!! I've had the grinds in 2nd and 3rd as well as it locking me out of 1st. I just touched 800 miles too......

You're supposed to be locked out of first when the car's rolling/moving!

[Jdog_Si]

Originally Posted by FusionSi11

this TSB is still good even if im out of warranty correct? i got 50k

On the TSB, it says the following:

"Out of warranty: Any repair performed after warranty
expiration may be eligible for goodwill consideration by
the District Parts and Service Manager or your Zone
Office. You must request consideration, and get a
decision, before starting work."

[08blacex]

Originally Posted by sc37

Sad to see they didn't list anything for my LX!!! I've had the grinds in 2nd and 3rd as well as it locking me out of 1st. I just touched 800 miles too......

I am wondering the same thing... i have a grind in second and third.. also sometimes locked out of first at a dead stop

[DuH-ReL]

Omg...finally!?!?!?!

[icen]

Originally Posted by cderalow

while you might think it's a totally faulty part, there's a large potential that the issue stems from a manufacturing defect on the part itself that might be within manufacturing tolerances.

it could be something as simple as 1/1000th of an inch difference in how something is machined (or even as close as 1/10000th).

the original parts might all be within the previous tolerances, but you might have a few defects in the parts as always happens in manufacturing. those that have the issues, might have something that's out of whack by that little, and those that don't might have something that's within the tolerances, and is a little more lose than the ones with problems...

it's a guess.

what says that it's not a total recall... is that not all vehicles are effected by it.

Can't agree with you more.

Every single part, fabricated in the same machine, is different. A good example would be the computer processor industry. After years of fine tuning the fabrication process, they get maybe 80% to 90% of the chips that pass the spec and is sold as core2dual.. the remainder 10%-20% is sold as something else. Maybe as single core or as a chip that's runs at slower clock.

Either Honda redesigned the 3rd gear, that's less sensitive to the manufacture process, or they set a tighter specs for the part (lower tolerant).

[GeezerSi]

Originally Posted by cderalow

while you might think it's a totally faulty part, there's a large potential that the issue stems from a manufacturing defect on the part itself that might be within manufacturing tolerances.

it could be something as simple as 1/1000th of an inch difference in how something is machined (or even as close as 1/10000th).

the original parts might all be within the previous tolerances, but you might have a few defects in the parts as always happens in manufacturing. those that have the issues, might have something that's out of whack by that little, and those that don't might have something that's within the tolerances, and is a little more lose than the ones with problems...

it's a guess.

what says that it's not a total recall... is that not all vehicles are effected by it.

Yeah! Now this is the crux of the matter!

Honda made a mistake, and the result is an intermittant shifting problem. The TSB states that they have to replicate it before they will fix anyone's transmission.

I would like if they would also provide for the instance where a customer states they have the shift problem, but the dealership cannot replicate it. In this case -- after say 5 attempts, they agree to repair the transmission. However, if they do not find any defective components, the customer pays for the repair.

This would discourage the customers, who don't really have a problem, from wasting their time, and it would allow a customer like me, who has this defect, to get their transmission fixed without incurring lost work time due to bringing their car to the dealership over and over and over and etc.

I can see that I will get stuck with this piece of crap problem that Honda caused, because I will get discouraged from having to bring it in for them to replicate without any success.

Maybe that's what they're hoping for.

[GeezerSi]

Originally Posted by icen

Can't agree with you more.

Every single part, fabricated in the same machine, is different. A good example would be the computer processor industry. After years of fine tuning the fabrication process, they get maybe 80% to 90% of the chips that pass the spec and is sold as core2dual.. the remainder 10%-20% is sold as something else. Maybe as single core or as a chip that's runs at slower clock.

Either Honda redesigned the 3rd gear, that's less sensitive to the manufacture process, or they set a tighter specs for the part (lower tolerant).

In the ball/roller bearing industry, the tolerances are so tight that instead of trying to manufacture to an ultratight tolerance, they manufacture them all together, then sort them to the different ABEC levels.

[Firestrife]

Jesus people with the 5 speed manuals this has nothing to do with your cars. If your having problems its either you or your specific car, take it to the dealer, or see self about shifting issues.

[DuH-ReL]

Originally Posted by 06blaksi

what sucks is I have a 2nd gear issue, not 3rd....grinds when shifting at high rpm's

Originally Posted by tomato989

yeah, i also have the 2nd gear issue and no 3rd gear issue. mine grinds at any RPM over 3.5k intermittently. never know when it's going to do it. I was hoping Honda would provide fixes for both gear.

Originally Posted by mad monkey

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... too bad it's my second gear that shits out and not third... but anyways... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO@!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by melomood

2nd gear is way worse then 3rd, and its not technique it b.c they over fill there trannies with fluid, so how i that our fault.

Originally Posted by Firestrife

2nd Gear is more of a big issue with high rpm shifts while 3rd gear will pop out regardless. Ever since I changed the MTF i havent had a problem *knock on wood*
but if it ever comes up Im gonna definitely take it into honda.

I HAVE THE SECOND GEAR PROBLEM TOO!!! In my case, my stock '06 Si's 2nd gear grinds just as much if not more than my 3rd gear. =\

[K20Redline]

Originally Posted by Firestrife

Jesus people with the 5 speed manuals this has nothing to do with your cars. If your having problems its either you or your specific car, take it to the dealer, or see self about shifting issues.

rawrrr! lol

[Jdog_Si]

Originally Posted by GeezerSi

Yeah! Now this is the crux of the matter!

Honda made a mistake, and the result is an intermittant shifting problem. The TSB states that they have to replicate it before they will fix anyone's transmission.

I would like if they would also provide for the instance where a customer states they have the shift problem, but the dealership cannot replicate it. In this case -- after say 5 attempts, they agree to repair the transmission. However, if they do not find any defective components, the customer pays for the repair.

This would discourage the customers, who don't really have a problem, from wasting their time, and it would allow a customer like me, who has this defect, to get their transmission fixed without incurring lost work time due to bringing their car to the dealership over and over and over and etc.

I can see that I will get stuck with this piece of crap problem that Honda caused, because I will get discouraged from having to bring it in for them to replicate without any success.

Maybe that's what they're hoping for.

I would have to disagree. If I have experienced the issue, but when I bring it to the dealership, they are not able to reproduce it, I should not have to pay out of pocket for a repair if they look at the part and it looks ok.

How can they decide if a part is infact faulty or not? If this was true, this issue would of been spotted in the first placed and corrected before going into production. It is not my fault the issue is intermittent. All I know is the issue exists on my car, but does not happen everytime I shift. This should be enough grounds to cover a fix.