Honda 6 Speed Manual Dilemma - Article

[Special Ringpop]

Originally Posted by Orbit1

I'd prefer bleach...

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Orbit1 again."

[Si_Sedan_Fan]

Originally Posted by Seemund

Well... I also have problems with the 3rd gear..
but when I engage it, I can feel, "it's not all the way in". I'm not saying I'm smarter..
Just pay attention when you engage 3rd gear.

I do as you do but we shouldnt have to. Dont you hate to delay releasing the clutch when you release your in the notch and not all the way in to gear? Drives me mad. Wonder if the Mugens have the same problem. Imagine dealing with that crap on that car.

[MBK]

i thought of making a video of how i shift into third and it doesn't pop out or grind. if you guys are confidently shifting into third, so that the gear is in as much it can be in, and it still pops out and grinds, well that's something... and that really should be addressed. but if people are slapping it in like swatting a mosquito on your arm and it pops out and grinds or whatever, then i really don't have much sympathy, because it seems 3rd gear just needs to be confidently shifted into, and it does seem its the nature of the transmission, and if you are complaining about that then goodluck to you because i doubt honda is going to recall or issue a tsb because many cars at that price range have gears that are harder to get into than others, it just requires knowing your trans and knowing how to work it right... again, if you are doing everything right and the dang thing is popping out, then i really don't know what to say and they def should fix that... on the other hand, if you're shifting halfway into third gear and complaining about its "smoothness" and how it pops out if its not all the way in then i don't agree

[Si_Sedan_Fan]

Originally Posted by MBK

i thought of making a video of how i shift into third and it doesn't pop out or grind. if you guys are confidently shifting into third, so that the gear is in as much it can be in, and it still pops out and grinds, well that's something... and that really should be addressed. but if people are slapping it in like swatting a mosquito on your arm and it pops out and grinds or whatever, then i really don't have much sympathy, because it seems 3rd gear just needs to be confidently shifted into, and it does seem its the nature of the transmission, and if you are complaining about that then goodluck to you because i doubt honda is going to recall or issue a tsb because many cars at that price range have gears that are harder to get into than others, it just requires knowing your trans and knowing how to work it right... again, if you are doing everything right and the dang thing is popping out, then i really don't know what to say and they def should fix that... on the other hand, if you're shifting halfway into third gear and complaining about its "smoothness" and how it pops out if its not all the way in then i don't agree

Disagree.... so your saying if your door lock is hard to open and you have to jiggle the key to get the cylinder to turn it's your problem if cant unlock the door. Just jiggle the key and there's no problem. BS it's not supposed to work that way. You shouldnt have to put up with a faulty part no matter what it is. Why do I have to be careful shifting into 3rd when I dont have to be careful shifting into any other gear. That doesnt make sense. Your willing to put up with a faulty part, your Hondas dream customer. Also have to say that I dont understand you logic on price range. 20 grand is not a cheap car. What do you expect the owner of a $15,000 car to put with. A car that doesnt shift into reverse , water leaks or maybe a car that that doesnt start sometimes. You sound like a Honda rep.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by MBK

i thought of making a video of how i shift into third and it doesn't pop out or grind. if you guys are confidently shifting into third, so that the gear is in as much it can be in, and it still pops out and grinds, well that's something... and that really should be addressed. but if people are slapping it in like swatting a mosquito on your arm and it pops out and grinds or whatever, then i really don't have much sympathy, because it seems 3rd gear just needs to be confidently shifted into, and it does seem its the nature of the transmission, and if you are complaining about that then goodluck to you because i doubt honda is going to recall or issue a tsb because many cars at that price range have gears that are harder to get into than others, it just requires knowing your trans and knowing how to work it right... again, if you are doing everything right and the dang thing is popping out, then i really don't know what to say and they def should fix that... on the other hand, if you're shifting halfway into third gear and complaining about its "smoothness" and how it pops out if its not all the way in then i don't agree

I have owned many Hondas in the past 5 years:

2000 Honda Insight
2007 Honda Accord
1997 Honda Civic DX
1998 Honda Civic EX
2002 Honda S2000
2000 Honda Civic Si
UK Ariel Atom 2 245

I have also driven every Honda/Acura vehicle made in the US since 2000 with the exception of the new Pilot.

All of these manual transmissions with the exception of the Accord has flawless shifting. My shifting has never changed on any of these vehicles.

All of sudden there is a problem with the Accord manual gear box. And almost every Si I have driven.

As per the article 10 in test 8 of 10 had the third gear problem. All with low miles.

Do you have some magic trick to moving a lever forward that I don't know?

[MBK]

a little human torque? come on now dude

[MBK]

Originally Posted by Si_Sedan_Fan

Disagree.... so your saying if your door lock is hard to open and you have to jiggle the key to get the cylinder to turn it's your problem if cant unlock the door. Just jiggle the key and there's no problem. BS it's not supposed to work that way. You shouldnt have to put up with a faulty part no matter what it is. Why do I have to be careful shifting into 3rd when I dont have to be careful shifting into any other gear. That doesnt make sense. Your willing to put up with a faulty part, your Hondas dream customer. Also have to say that I dont understand you logic on price range. 20 grand is not a cheap car. What do you expect the owner of a $15,000 car to put with. A car that doesnt shift into reverse , water leaks or maybe a car that that doesnt start sometimes. You sound like a Honda rep.

you also have to be careful shifting into 2nd too at WOT when redlining first

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by MBK

a little human torque? come on now dude

You bring up a good point, everyone drives differently. It may affect certain people more than others. And some cars probably have more of a manufacturer defect in the transmissions than others. You are used to it being flaky and you just accept it.

[MBK]

i don't see it as a problem, sorry; its never popped out or ground on me. if you have a different case i wish you the best of luck!

[MBK]

now what has ground on me is shifting into second at WOT at redline

[dt07Si]

Dezoris, Let me start by saying thank you for taking the time to write a well written atricle and taking the video footage of that Accord.

I myself have had 3rd gear grind problems, the occasional 2nd gear grind, and just yesterday 3rd gear popped out for the second time on my '07 FG2 with a little over 16k miles on it now.

My dealer has refused to replace the transmission fluid, becausr there are no TSB's or recalls on the transmission and has even gone as far as to say he has never had a customer complain of a similar problem (which I find very hard to believe based on the size of the dealership) and treats me like a little kid who beats on his car because I have a few things modified on it.

I have my fingers crossed that Honda acknowledges the six speed transmission problems this month, however I'm not hopeful my dealership will be able to replicate the problem I will bring my car in as many times as I have to.

Just a couple questions for you though, one was this article sent to Honda? If so who in particular if you don't mind me asking?

And you could probably also include threads from ClubRSX.com related to transmission problems.

[Special Ringpop]

Originally Posted by MBK

i doubt honda is going to recall or issue a tsb because many cars at that price range have gears that are harder to get into than others, it just requires knowing your trans and knowing how to work it right.

Name one, please.

I've driven MT Focus, Camry, Versa, Cobalt, Mazda3, Mazda6, and Corolla, and while many of their boxes were not all that fun to drive, none of them resisted a shift, grinded, or flat out spit it back out into neutral.

[MBK]

sorry man, mine hasn't popped out... i hope u get yours fixed

[Si_Sedan_Fan]

Originally Posted by MBK

a little human torque? come on now dude

Yes that works for me. I have to use more "torque" to get past the notch and not grind 3rd but thats unacceptable to me. I would not tolerate that from ANY new car regardless of price. I must admit that the higher the price of the veh the more pissed I would be but that doesnt make my aggrevation any less acceptable with this car.

[av911]

Originally Posted by MBK

sorry man, mine hasn't popped out... i hope u get yours fixed

You're probably 1% of the Si's out there that doesn't pop out, but don't tell people to change their driving habits because their 3rd gear is "faulty" from the get-go, that it's "driver error", or telling them to deal with it 'cause it's a $20,000 car.

because many cars at that price range have gears that are harder to get into than others

You still haven't named ONE car besides Honda's that does this.

because it seems 3rd gear just needs to be confidently shifted into

Damn, it's a mental thing now??? What other cars need to be "confidently shifted" into any gear?

[Si_Sedan_Fan]

Originally Posted by MBK

sorry man, mine hasn't popped out... i hope u get yours fixed

It doesnt pop out, it never goes in due to the notch and when the clutch is released it grinds and kicks the shifter back. Many people believe that it's popping out of gear when it in fact was never in all the way. That is the issue. Notchy feel in the stick that fools many people to think that the stick went all the way up when it in fact is only half way in. So again you are correct in the work around which is just shift harder into 3rd but I would rather it work the way it's supposed to.

[dt07Si]

Originally Posted by dt07Si

And you could probably also include threads from ClubRSX.com related to transmission problems.

Like I mentioned Before, here is a link to a sticky'd thread on Club RSX in the Transmission & Drivetrain subforum pertaining to transmission problems with the RSX 6 spd tranmission.

CLUB RSX "RSX Gear Grind/ Synchro Problem" Thread

There are probably plenty more but this is just the first one I came across in my initial search and happens to be the one recognized by the moderators and administrators of the forum.

[MBK]

Originally Posted by av911

You're probably 1% of the Si's out there that doesn't pop out, but don't tell people to change their driving habits because their 3rd gear is "faulty" from the get-go, that it's "driver error", or telling them to deal with it 'cause it's a $20,000 car.


You still haven't named ONE car besides Honda's that does this.


Damn, it's a mental thing now??? What other cars need to be "confidently shifted" into any gear?

i can name an entire transmission that isn't perfect: the TR3650 by tremec. to get into reverse you need to shift into first sometimes. sometimes there will be a notch going into second. its not perfect, like the honda, but if you know how to work it, it will never do you wrong. check out the people in the si forum who don't have a 3rd gear problem; id say there's quite a few more than 1% that have gotten past the little notch.

[dt07Si]

Originally Posted by MBK

i can name an entire transmission that isn't perfect: the TR3650 by tremec. to get into reverse you need to shift into first sometimes. sometimes there will be a notch going into second. its not perfect, like the honda, but if you know how to work it, it will never do you wrong. check out the people in the si forum who don't have a 3rd gear problem; id say there's quite a few more than 1% that have gotten past the little notch.

If you don't mind me asking what vehicles is that transmission found in?

And I do agree that there appears to be more than 1% of '06+ Civic Si owners who haven't had a problem YET. My main concern is I already have the problem and it started within the first few hundred miles of owning my car and it has 16k+ on it now and I haven't even owned the car for a year. I feel as if its inevitiable there will be a percentage of owners that will never experience this problem, whether thats because of their driving style or because they got lucky and their trnasmission is defect free, who knows.

But I'm wondering how these transmissions are going to hold up in the long run?

Are a lot of these owners like yourself who haven't had problems going to be be complaining of the same problems in a matter of years if not months, because that already seems to be the growing trend?

Bottom line is we have all purchased new cars or lightly used cars made by a manufacuterer with a reputation for reliability and we aren't getting it and as of now we haven't seen any support from them either.

[MBK]

tremec is used by both ford and GM and the TR3650 specifically is used by ford across its models worldwide. the transmission is mostly smoothe, like honda's, save a few areas. i don't have a problem with the notch in 3rd and i hope i never will. shifting into it doesn't phase me and i do wish you guys luck if you are trying to get a fix for the notch.