Ethanol Gas Sucks!

nolimit179 · 12-19-2007, 01:03 PM

Well I live in NY and all gas all year round has 10% ethanol by volume in all grades. I took a trip down to Florida to visit family in my new 08 Civic. I noticed that when I stopped for gas along I-95 past New Jersey they didn't contain ethanol. Well lets just say that my car had more power and got AT LEAST 80-100 more miles to the tank

I have an EX and I use only 87. I had it on cruise going about 80-90mph with A/C on. All I have to say is Ethanol Sucks!

I'm sure some will agree.

***Firestrife*** · 12-19-2007, 01:06 PM

Ethanol burns faster from what I heard so switching over you should see a difference in mileage as opposed to pure petroleum.

rbsjnh · 12-19-2007, 01:07 PM

I agree ethanol blends suck, they run as much as 25% in nh...but when tuned correctly...ethanol could be king...

Its a good fix to an immediate problem...

SlightlyHigherOutput · 12-19-2007, 02:16 PM

Ethanol blends are going to be a big part of the future of fuel. Simply put, you think Ethanol sucks because your car is not tuned for it and you have pre-notions of it sucking. 80-100 miles extra for 1 tank has much less to do with the 10% of Ethanol in your gas than other factors you may have come across.

In simple terms Ethanol burns about 10-15% faster than pure gasoline. Factor in that you've only got a blend of 10% and the mpg difference should really only be about 1% or roughly 5 miles per tank.

Mateen · 12-19-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlightlyHigherOutput

Ethanol blends are going to be a big part of the future of fuel. Simply put, you think Ethanol sucks because your car is not tuned for it and you have pre-notions of it sucking. 80-100 miles extra for 1 tank has much less to do with the 10% of Ethanol in your gas than other factors you may have come across.

In simple terms Ethanol burns about 10-15% faster than pure gasoline. Factor in that you've only got a blend of 10% and the mpg difference should really only be about 1% or roughly 5 miles per tank.

It might be a big part of the future of fuel and again it might not. But meantime it serves no purpose for today's engines. In fact it would do more harm than good.

rbsjnh · 12-19-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mateen

It might be a big part of the future of fuel and again it might not. But meantime it serves no purpose for today's engines. In fact it would do more harm than good.

how do you figure?

With a proper tune, the car would last as long as with gas...there are people worried that it might cause the fuel lines to rot out earlier, but that has not been proven...

This country is in desperate need for a solution to this oil crisis...ethanol seems to be the best answer which would accomodate every vehicle on the road...

I'd really like to know where your source is, because I have seen nothing but positives when it comes to e85 and e100

SlightlyHigherOutput · 12-19-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsjnh

how do you figure?

With a proper tune, the car would last as long as with gas...there are people worried that it might cause the fuel lines to rot out earlier, but that has not been proven...

This country is in desperate need for a solution to this oil crisis...ethanol seems to be the best answer which would accomodate every vehicle on the road...

I'd really like to know where your source is, because I have seen nothing but positives when it comes to e85 and e100

E100 is a stretch, the engine still needs lubrication from the 15% gasoline. But yes, it's a great alternative. Every single car on the road right now could use E85 with just minor modification. Cutting fuel demand by 85% would surely put a hole in the pockets of big oil.

Mateen · 12-19-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsjnh

how do you figure?

With a proper tune, the car would last as long as with gas...there are people worried that it might cause the fuel lines to rot out earlier, but that has not been proven...

This country is in desperate need for a solution to this oil crisis...ethanol seems to be the best answer which would accomodate every vehicle on the road...

I'd really like to know where your source is, because I have seen nothing but positives when it comes to e85 and e100

Yes e85 & e100 are great idea for engines that are designed for them. Try using that on your Civic.
For now we are dealing with engines that are designed to burn GAS not ethanol.

ryker · 12-19-2007, 04:16 PM

Ethanol has LESS energy per gallon (BTU's)
Less energy per gallon = more gallons to get the same output

In a turbo engine with high boost levels the car could be tuned to take advantage of the higher octane. However it will still have lower BTU's per gallon thus it will get less MPG.

The new energy bill just signed into law will require a huge increase in ethanol use by 2012....

ryker · 12-19-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsjnh

This country is in desperate need for a solution to this oil crisis...ethanol seems to be the best answer which would accomodate every vehicle on the road...

I'd really like to know where your source is, because I have seen nothing but positives when it comes to e85 and e100

National Biodiesel Board - www.biodiesel.org - www.nbb.org

stop urban sprawl, increase mass transit, allow the import of diesel cars (40+mpg!!! )

Ethanol has many negatives. Such as the hidden tax payer cost since it is subsidiesed by the governement. And the largest producers of ethanol just happens to have given boat loads of money to politicians.

Ethanol production has also caused food prices to increase.

BigT · 12-19-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsjnh

how do you figure?

With a proper tune, the car would last as long as with gas...there are people worried that it might cause the fuel lines to rot out earlier, but that has not been proven...

This country is in desperate need for a solution to this oil crisis...ethanol seems to be the best answer which would accomodate every vehicle on the road...
I'd really like to know where your source is, because I have seen nothing but positives when it comes to e85 and e100

A lot of my family are farmers. If the price of corn goes up they do really well, so I'm not against the idea of using of ethanol as fuel.

However, having farmers in the family also gives me first-hand knowledge of the biggest downfall of ethanol. In order to produce enough ethanol to power all the cars in the US roughly 97% of the land in the US (not just farmland, ALL land) would have to be cornfields. This is obviously impossible. To accomodate even a large number of cars virtually all farmland would have to be dedicated to corn.

Not only would this leave us still needing oil or some other energy source for the rest of the cars, this would also cause the price of other crops to skyrocket. The price and availability of everything made with crops grown in the US would be affected significantly. This wouldn't really solve the oil problem, plus it would create a host of new problems.

xxhaimbondxx · 12-19-2007, 06:10 PM

Just yesterday I read an article somewhere that the farmers who started to grow as much corn as possible to produce ethanol, use a lot of pesticide which then leaks into our water ways and kills any living thing on it's path. Oil crisis might be solved, but not through imminent food crisis, which could be a little more dangerous.

ryker · 12-19-2007, 06:15 PM

I read an article that the price of beer and liquor has increased due to ethanol and the profit along with govt kickbacks.

IMO the solution needs to come from a change in society. We need to stop thinking it is OK to buy a house that is 60 min drive just in order to get the home cheaper. We need to figure out how to make it easier to change jobs or sell a house and relocate. We need to grow up and not out - as in tall buildings verse massive urban sprawl.

blackrose · 12-19-2007, 06:37 PM

like the jetsons

rbsjnh · 12-19-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mateen

Yes e85 & e100 are great idea for engines that are designed for them. Try using that on your Civic.
For now we are dealing with engines that are designed to burn GAS not ethanol.

if k pro was available...you could run e85...all the cars on the road could be converted with minimal modification and a reflash...

rbsjnh · 12-19-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryker

National Biodiesel Board - www.biodiesel.org - www.nbb.org

ryker, I think bio diesel is one of the best solutions for the oil craze, but what I was trying to say is that we can fix the gasoline crisis today w/o everyone buying new cars by encouraging the conversion to e85...

ffswizzlestick · 12-19-2007, 07:00 PM

e85 is the dumbest idea in the history of the planet. It still uses oil in the 15% and you will get worse gas mileage with it. So over extended periods of time with e85 we will actually be using more oil.

rbsjnh · 12-19-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT

A lot of my family are farmers. If the price of corn goes up they do really well, so I'm not against the idea of using of ethanol as fuel.

However, having farmers in the family also gives me first-hand knowledge of the biggest downfall of ethanol. In order to produce enough ethanol to power all the cars in the US roughly 97% of the land in the US (not just farmland, ALL land) would have to be cornfields. This is obviously impossible. To accomodate even a large number of cars virtually all farmland would have to be dedicated to corn.

Not only would this leave us still needing oil or some other energy source for the rest of the cars, this would also cause the price of other crops to skyrocket. The price and availability of everything made with crops grown in the US would be affected significantly. This wouldn't really solve the oil problem, plus it would create a host of new problems.

first I agree with all you say...if e85 is the way of the future we need to look to other countries, with growing economies, to supply alot of the raw materials...both in N.A. and S.A....

rbsjnh · 12-19-2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffswizzlestick

e85 is the dumbest idea in the history of the planet. It still uses oil in the 15% and you will get worse gas mileage with it. So over extended periods of time with e85 we will actually be using more oil.

your math doesn't add up...

nolimit179 · 12-19-2007, 07:08 PM

ethanol seems to have much more negatives then positives for use in cars. using ethanol e85, e100, or e10 all lower gas mileage and cause food prices to go up. ok its cleaner burning, but now you have to fill up more often (not really helping with the cleaner part) and have to use some of our food to make it. the future of fuels seem to be hydrogen, its easy to make (can be made at the pump), no pollution and gets better mileage and more power then any mixture of gas. well the government is in control and whoever has deepest pockets will win that war.

12-19-2007, 01:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
nolimit179 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Largo, FL Age: 24 Posts: 42 Chris iTrader: 0 / 0%	Ethanol Gas Sucks! Well I live in NY and all gas all year round has 10% ethanol by volume in all grades. I took a trip down to Florida to visit family in my new 08 Civic. I noticed that when I stopped for gas along I-95 past New Jersey they didn't contain ethanol. Well lets just say that my car had more power and got AT LEAST 80-100 more miles to the tank I have an EX and I use only 87. I had it on cruise going about 80-90mph with A/C on. All I have to say is Ethanol Sucks! I'm sure some will agree.

12-19-2007, 01:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
*Firestrife* Go Gators! Join Date: May 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Age: 20 Posts: 3,286 Keenan iTrader: 7 / 100%	Ethanol burns faster from what I heard so switching over you should see a difference in mileage as opposed to pure petroleum. __________________ IMV Films Vehicular Lunacy at its Finest Firestrife's Nighthawk Wonder Gainesville/UF Guys check in here!

12-19-2007, 04:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
ryker Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,177 iTrader: 1 / 100%	Ethanol has LESS energy per gallon (BTU's) Less energy per gallon = more gallons to get the same output In a turbo engine with high boost levels the car could be tuned to take advantage of the higher octane. However it will still have lower BTU's per gallon thus it will get less MPG. The new energy bill just signed into law will require a huge increase in ethanol use by 2012....

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12-19-2007, 01:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
rbsjnh Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: in yo mama Posts: 1,550 WARNING: Honda Zealot iTrader: 0 / 0%	I agree ethanol blends suck, they run as much as 25% in nh...but when tuned correctly...ethanol could be king... Its a good fix to an immediate problem...

12-19-2007, 02:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
SlightlyHigherOutput Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 25 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Ethanol blends are going to be a big part of the future of fuel. Simply put, you think Ethanol sucks because your car is not tuned for it and you have pre-notions of it sucking. 80-100 miles extra for 1 tank has much less to do with the 10% of Ethanol in your gas than other factors you may have come across. In simple terms Ethanol burns about 10-15% faster than pure gasoline. Factor in that you've only got a blend of 10% and the mpg difference should really only be about 1% or roughly 5 miles per tank.

12-19-2007, 06:10 PM	#12 (permalink)
xxhaimbondxx Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn=>Albany, NY Posts: 573 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Just yesterday I read an article somewhere that the farmers who started to grow as much corn as possible to produce ethanol, use a lot of pesticide which then leaks into our water ways and kills any living thing on it's path. Oil crisis might be solved, but not through imminent food crisis, which could be a little more dangerous.

12-19-2007, 06:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
ryker Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,177 iTrader: 1 / 100%	I read an article that the price of beer and liquor has increased due to ethanol and the profit along with govt kickbacks. IMO the solution needs to come from a change in society. We need to stop thinking it is OK to buy a house that is 60 min drive just in order to get the home cheaper. We need to figure out how to make it easier to change jobs or sell a house and relocate. We need to grow up and not out - as in tall buildings verse massive urban sprawl.

12-19-2007, 06:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
blackrose Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chi town Age: 22 Posts: 56 Dan iTrader: 0 / 0%	like the jetsons

12-19-2007, 07:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
ffswizzlestick Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lisle, IL Posts: 773 iTrader: 0 / 0%	e85 is the dumbest idea in the history of the planet. It still uses oil in the 15% and you will get worse gas mileage with it. So over extended periods of time with e85 we will actually be using more oil.

12-19-2007, 07:08 PM	#20 (permalink)
nolimit179 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Largo, FL Age: 24 Posts: 42 Chris iTrader: 0 / 0%	ethanol seems to have much more negatives then positives for use in cars. using ethanol e85, e100, or e10 all lower gas mileage and cause food prices to go up. ok its cleaner burning, but now you have to fill up more often (not really helping with the cleaner part) and have to use some of our food to make it. the future of fuels seem to be hydrogen, its easy to make (can be made at the pump), no pollution and gets better mileage and more power then any mixture of gas. well the government is in control and whoever has deepest pockets will win that war.