Brake trouble

tommyroo · 12-10-2007, 11:46 AM

Okay, so just a few weeks ago I had my entire brake system redone.

Stoptech slotted rotors (front & rear)

HPS brake pads (front & rear)

ATE Super Blue (flush n fill)

The brakes were fine up until a few days ago. My car has now developed a slight squeak when stopping. The squeak only happens when I stop from approx 20 mph. I don't hear it if I am stop from faster or slower then 20.

So I'm obviously concerned and would like your advice on what the issue could be.

I know that Hawk pads wear a bit faster then normal pads and I know that slotted rotors wear down pads a bit faster but damn, it's only been a few weeks.

1) Do you think it's either the pads or the rotors fault?

I went through an excessive bedding process after this was installed. Ten runs of 60 mph -> 10 mph. I had to repeat this the next day because following Stoptech's instructions the first "bedding" would only remove the special coating they put on the rotors.

2) Do you think I basically destroyed my pads with this hard core braking routine?

The only other option I can think of is that something was done incorrectly when installing the brakes, however I would think either the brakes work or they don't.

3) Should I take the car back to the mechanic to have the brakes checked?

Any other thoughts or opinions are appreciated.

Thanks.

rbsjnh · 12-10-2007, 11:51 AM

the more aggressive the pad...the more it squeeks...

don't worry, check pads if you'd like, but otherwise get use to it...

NIGHTHAWKSI · 12-10-2007, 11:52 AM

how long has the squaking been going on?
it could possible be something as simple as your pads are glazed over. give it a few days and dont ride your brakes.

oj88 · 12-10-2007, 11:54 AM

Squeaks are usually caused by:

1. Worn-out pads
2. Resonating pads

We can rule out #1 as it seems you're using a new set of pads. For #2, I heard that mechanics use copper grease to coat the non-friction side of the brake pad to dampen any vibration/resonation.

tommyroo · 12-10-2007, 01:25 PM

Hrm, I totally forgot that HPS pads were suppose to be noisy. I guess I just thought it would be a different noise then a squeak.

Visually I have plenty of pad left so Im guessing I'll just ignore the sound for now.

Next time I change the pads I'll make sure the mechanic puts a bit of grease on the non-friction side just in case.

Thanks.

soxfan143 · 12-10-2007, 05:09 PM

I'm been a mechanic for 15 years and I've never used grease of any kind on a brake system. All it does is collect more brake dust and road grime and cause the brakes to squeek more and bind up more often. Also have you ever seen grease on a car strait off the assembly line? Or on any High end cars? I worked for Cadillac for 10 years and my buddy worked for lexus for 8 before we went independant and we've never seen a car come with the pads "greased". It's the worst thing you can do. The reason they put it there is so it won't squeek before the warranty is up and to keep the car from coming back on them. Get it?

tommyroo · 12-10-2007, 05:29 PM

Okay, so grease is bad, I won't ask for it next time I change my pads.

Do you think that the squeak is likely just because the Hawk HPS pads are suppose to be noisy or should I get things checked out?

10Hondas · 12-10-2007, 06:34 PM

My HPS pads are not noisy with the stock rotors. My problem is I am getting a lot more brake dust on the back than on the front, strange. On a side note I used the factory shims and so called high temp grease for the Hawk HP+ I use at the track, big mistake, the grease burned the paint on the back of the pad and made a big mess. Leave the grease off.

tommyroo · 12-10-2007, 06:51 PM

Well that's what is bugging me. I would think the pads would either be noisy all the time or not at all. Why in the world would I only get a squeak when stopping at a certain speed?

I seem to have issues with everything I try to do with this car.

I thought it would be fun modding a car but I think next time I'm just gonna spring for something that is already a finished product.

soxfan143 · 12-10-2007, 06:54 PM

I personally don't know what would be causing the squeek because I'm not there to hear it so I'm not gonna say anything without physically hearing or driving your vehicle. But in my past experiences with High performance pads and rotors is they do squeek at low speeds. They are meant to be beaten on. But like I said I am not there to hear it. I don't think you really needed to do that hard of a break in though. I think the hard break in might of created excess dust and actually glazed the pads over. Excessive heating and quick cooling isn't good when they are new. Try spraying some brake clean on the pads then washing your wheels and tires. Don't be afraid to spray the calipers with the wheel cleaner. It helps get the brake dust out. Dust can cause squeeking. The rotors don't have a blueish color to them, do they? If they do it's not good. That will definately cause a squeek.

oj88 · 12-10-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxfan143

I'm been a mechanic for 15 years and I've never used grease of any kind on a brake system. All it does is collect more brake dust and road grime and cause the brakes to squeek more and bind up more often. Also have you ever seen grease on a car strait off the assembly line? Or on any High end cars? I worked for Cadillac for 10 years and my buddy worked for lexus for 8 before we went independant and we've never seen a car come with the pads "greased". It's the worst thing you can do. The reason they put it there is so it won't squeek before the warranty is up and to keep the car from coming back on them. Get it?

Ok, so I'm not really an expert mechanic but more like a hobbyist. I have been using copper grease for years on some of my cars as I've seen this done by brake shops. I only have to do it every time I change pads, not every six months. I'm sure not all calipers, brake pads and including rotors are machined the same way and some minor factory tolerances are to be expected. Sometimes, if conditions are right, the pads tend to resonate at a certain speed and/or brake pressure. The copper grease works as a damper and prevents the pads from reaching resonance.

Anyway, if I didn't made it clear earlier, you apply a light coat of copper grease (not axle grease or any other types of grease) on the side of the brake pad where it rests on the caliper pistons. You should NOT have any of this stuff on the friction side where the rotors are. Unlike ordinary grease, copper grease does not dry up and the copper content helps dissipate heat from the pads to the caliper. It is also used as an anti-seizing compound.

Here are the links explaining it better than I could. I know the Internet is sometimes full of s#!t and what have yous, but since it works for me and to seemingly thousands of other guys, it didn't hurt to share this bit of info.

soxfan143 · 12-10-2007, 08:40 PM

If it works for you then all the power to you. I personally will never put any grease of any kind on my brakes. And obviously you don't put it on the contact side of the pad. But like I said before, the grease collects dirt and brake dust and causes way more problems than it helps. I've seen it time and time again. People use anti-sieze and all ther kinds of crap, and more often than not, they are covered in dirt and dust. and the pads start to bind up in the caliper bracket and they don't release from the rotor causing premature wear. So there are pros and cons of greasing the pads. I personally think the cons outwiegh pros in this situation. But everyone has different opinions. So to the OP that's my .02.

jdecker · 12-10-2007, 10:17 PM

wouldn't the temperature of the materials also play a factor.

tommyroo · 12-11-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxfan143

Dust can cause squeeking. The rotors don't have a blueish color to them, do they? If they do it's not good. That will definately cause a squeek.

No worries, the rotors are fine. I followed Stoptech's instructions to the letter. Here is a pic taken a few days after I broke them in.

You guys might just be geniuses though. I haven't washed my car in ages. I bet it's brake dust. I will give her a good scrubbing tonight.

soxfan143 · 12-12-2007, 11:34 PM

How'd you make out with your squeeling noise man? Any news?

tommyroo · 12-13-2007, 11:20 AM

I haven't got any break dust cleaner yet but I washed the car and sprayed the crap out of the wheels with water.

The squeak is still there.

If it ends up being the HPS pads I might go back to stock. It's embarassing pulling up somewhere and hearing that noise as I stop.

12-10-2007, 11:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
tommyroo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 35 Posts: 1,151 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Brake trouble Okay, so just a few weeks ago I had my entire brake system redone. Stoptech slotted rotors (front & rear) HPS brake pads (front & rear) ATE Super Blue (flush n fill) The brakes were fine up until a few days ago. My car has now developed a slight squeak when stopping. The squeak only happens when I stop from approx 20 mph. I don't hear it if I am stop from faster or slower then 20. So I'm obviously concerned and would like your advice on what the issue could be. I know that Hawk pads wear a bit faster then normal pads and I know that slotted rotors wear down pads a bit faster but damn, it's only been a few weeks. 1) Do you think it's either the pads or the rotors fault? I went through an excessive bedding process after this was installed. Ten runs of 60 mph -> 10 mph. I had to repeat this the next day because following Stoptech's instructions the first "bedding" would only remove the special coating they put on the rotors. 2) Do you think I basically destroyed my pads with this hard core braking routine? The only other option I can think of is that something was done incorrectly when installing the brakes, however I would think either the brakes work or they don't. 3) Should I take the car back to the mechanic to have the brakes checked? Any other thoughts or opinions are appreciated. Thanks.

12-10-2007, 06:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
soxfan143 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lynnfield, MA Age: 34 Posts: 3,552 Mike iTrader: 4 / 100%	I personally don't know what would be causing the squeek because I'm not there to hear it so I'm not gonna say anything without physically hearing or driving your vehicle. But in my past experiences with High performance pads and rotors is they do squeek at low speeds. They are meant to be beaten on. But like I said I am not there to hear it. I don't think you really needed to do that hard of a break in though. I think the hard break in might of created excess dust and actually glazed the pads over. Excessive heating and quick cooling isn't good when they are new. Try spraying some brake clean on the pads then washing your wheels and tires. Don't be afraid to spray the calipers with the wheel cleaner. It helps get the brake dust out. Dust can cause squeeking. The rotors don't have a blueish color to them, do they? If they do it's not good. That will definately cause a squeek. Last edited by soxfan143; 12-10-2007 at 07:02 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
DIY Front Brake Pads	60103	Suspension	24	11-25-2008 02:42 PM
HELP - brake light malfunction - HELP	microjubei	I.C.E., Electrical, Security, & Navigation	2	11-18-2007 12:38 PM
DIY Parking Brake Adjustment	60103	Do It Yourself Articles	4	09-25-2007 04:42 PM
Minor Brake Upgrading	604_ep3	Suspension and Brakes	5	02-26-2007 01:13 AM
Brakes (06' Si) Parts-list:	Torredo	Suspension and Brakes	3	12-07-2006 02:59 AM

12-10-2007, 11:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
rbsjnh Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: in yo mama Posts: 1,550 WARNING: Honda Zealot iTrader: 0 / 0%	the more aggressive the pad...the more it squeeks... don't worry, check pads if you'd like, but otherwise get use to it...

12-10-2007, 11:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
NIGHTHAWKSI Senior Member Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: long island Age: 23 Posts: 14,735 Ian iTrader: 13 / 100%	how long has the squaking been going on? it could possible be something as simple as your pads are glazed over. give it a few days and dont ride your brakes.

12-10-2007, 11:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
oj88 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 266 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Squeaks are usually caused by: 1. Worn-out pads 2. Resonating pads We can rule out #1 as it seems you're using a new set of pads. For #2, I heard that mechanics use copper grease to coat the non-friction side of the brake pad to dampen any vibration/resonation.

12-10-2007, 01:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
tommyroo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 35 Posts: 1,151 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Hrm, I totally forgot that HPS pads were suppose to be noisy. I guess I just thought it would be a different noise then a squeak. Visually I have plenty of pad left so Im guessing I'll just ignore the sound for now. Next time I change the pads I'll make sure the mechanic puts a bit of grease on the non-friction side just in case. Thanks.

12-10-2007, 05:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
soxfan143 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lynnfield, MA Age: 34 Posts: 3,552 Mike iTrader: 4 / 100%	I'm been a mechanic for 15 years and I've never used grease of any kind on a brake system. All it does is collect more brake dust and road grime and cause the brakes to squeek more and bind up more often. Also have you ever seen grease on a car strait off the assembly line? Or on any High end cars? I worked for Cadillac for 10 years and my buddy worked for lexus for 8 before we went independant and we've never seen a car come with the pads "greased". It's the worst thing you can do. The reason they put it there is so it won't squeek before the warranty is up and to keep the car from coming back on them. Get it?

12-10-2007, 05:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
tommyroo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 35 Posts: 1,151 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Okay, so grease is bad, I won't ask for it next time I change my pads. Do you think that the squeak is likely just because the Hawk HPS pads are suppose to be noisy or should I get things checked out?

12-10-2007, 06:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
10Hondas Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NC Posts: 68 iTrader: 0 / 0%	My HPS pads are not noisy with the stock rotors. My problem is I am getting a lot more brake dust on the back than on the front, strange. On a side note I used the factory shims and so called high temp grease for the Hawk HP+ I use at the track, big mistake, the grease burned the paint on the back of the pad and made a big mess. Leave the grease off.

12-10-2007, 06:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
tommyroo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 35 Posts: 1,151 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Well that's what is bugging me. I would think the pads would either be noisy all the time or not at all. Why in the world would I only get a squeak when stopping at a certain speed? I seem to have issues with everything I try to do with this car. I thought it would be fun modding a car but I think next time I'm just gonna spring for something that is already a finished product.

12-10-2007, 08:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
soxfan143 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lynnfield, MA Age: 34 Posts: 3,552 Mike iTrader: 4 / 100%	If it works for you then all the power to you. I personally will never put any grease of any kind on my brakes. And obviously you don't put it on the contact side of the pad. But like I said before, the grease collects dirt and brake dust and causes way more problems than it helps. I've seen it time and time again. People use anti-sieze and all ther kinds of crap, and more often than not, they are covered in dirt and dust. and the pads start to bind up in the caliper bracket and they don't release from the rotor causing premature wear. So there are pros and cons of greasing the pads. I personally think the cons outwiegh pros in this situation. But everyone has different opinions. So to the OP that's my .02.

12-10-2007, 10:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
jdecker Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: gainesville, fl Age: 22 Posts: 130 james iTrader: 0 / 0%	wouldn't the temperature of the materials also play a factor.

12-12-2007, 11:34 PM	#15 (permalink)
soxfan143 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lynnfield, MA Age: 34 Posts: 3,552 Mike iTrader: 4 / 100%	How'd you make out with your squeeling noise man? Any news?

12-13-2007, 11:20 AM	#16 (permalink)
tommyroo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 35 Posts: 1,151 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I haven't got any break dust cleaner yet but I washed the car and sprayed the crap out of the wheels with water. The squeak is still there. If it ends up being the HPS pads I might go back to stock. It's embarassing pulling up somewhere and hearing that noise as I stop.