PROOF Honda recognizes the 2nd gear grind as a mechanical problem, not driver error

[I Vtec, do you?]

I, personally, think I shift normally. I'm not like that guy on youtube "How's my shifting?" when he's banging it into gear as quickly as possible. It has even happened to my dad, who drove a manual for several, several years and know exactly what he's doing. Add that on to my friend who drov emy car once and it happened to him the first time he ever took it up a few k rpms and that it has now happened to two techs, I'm either saying this is a car problem or this car isn't well built for its design (revving to 8200 rpms).

[dualdiagnosis]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

It is irrelevant, if you had read my post you would've seen why I don't shift quickly, just at high RPMs. It shouldn't grind at ALL, no matter how I shift, as long as the clutch is in and properly shifted.

Maybe you can answer me this - how are you shifting at 8300 RPMs?

Answer these questions, as I have asked them in 2 different posts. WHY DO I NOT GRIND WHEN SHIFTING FROM 8300 RPMS?? I SHIFT FIRM AND FAST ENOUGH TO BARK THE TIRES GOING INTO 2ND. NO GRINDING.

And again, it is not irrelevant. It DOES matter how you shift!!! Especially from that high of an rpm. THIS IS WHY SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE DRIVEN MANUALS GRIND THIS PARTICULAR CAR. (they have never driven a car that revs as high)

[I Vtec, do you?]

Originally Posted by dualdiagnosis

Answer these questions, as I have asked them in 2 different posts. WHY DO I NOT GRIND WHEN SHIFTING FROM 8300 RPMS?? I SHIFT FIRM AND FAST ENOUGH TO BARK THE TIRES GOING INTO 2ND. NO GRINDING.

And again, it is not irrelevant.

I really don't know what you're saying. First you said slow down because shifting too fast makes it grind. Now you're saying you shift 'fast enough'. I don't even shift fast in general..

And I really have no idea why you aren't grinding now. Maybe you had poor manual skills earlier and now you are being more careful actually having the clutch in and whatnot before you shift. It could be anything, I don't know your situation, nor do you know mine.

Hrm I also just thought of a good question when I saw that thread of the guying running a 14.0x in his SI.. how is that possible if your logic is right? By your logic, shifting fast = gear grind. So how is someone pulling off nearly 13s in their si without insanely fast shifting? And if quick shifting is the case, why doesn't it happen every time you shift quickly? I think one could logically assume that if it IS the quick shifting that is causing it to grind, it would happen every time you banged through the gears.

[dualdiagnosis]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

I really don't know what you're saying. First you said slow down because shifting too fast makes it grind. Now you're saying you shift 'fast enough'. I don't even shift fast in general..

And I really have no idea why you aren't grinding now. Maybe you had poor manual skills earlier and now you are being more careful actually having the clutch in and whatnot before you shift. It could be anything, I don't know your situation, nor do you know mine.

You know everything that I have just told you, THATS IT. Just like I know everything YOU JUST TOLD ME. So if you are aknowledging that I may have "had poor manual skills earlier" then you are aknowledging driver error.

[dualdiagnosis]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

Hrm I also just thought of a good question when I saw that thread of the guying running a 14.0x in his SI.. how is that possible if your logic is right? By your logic, shifting fast = gear grind. So how is someone pulling off nearly 13s in their si without insanely fast shifting? And if quick shifting is the case, why doesn't it happen every time you shift quickly? I think one could logically assume that if it IS the quick shifting that is causing it to grind, it would happen every time you banged through the gears.

Your missing the point. There is a fine line between shifting too fast and just slowing it down a thousanth of a second to prevent a grind.

[I Vtec, do you?]

Yes, I'm acknowledging that you had driver error. And I can accept that I have driver error as well, this being my first manual. HOWEVER, when it happens to my father, who drove a manual for longer than some people on these boards have been alive for, my friend who has been driving a manual for several years, and two honda techs.. then I start to beleive it IS the car. And even if it somehow wasn't the car.. don't you think this car was designed somewhat shittily if 5 people proficient with manuals are having trouble shifting it properly?

[dualdiagnosis]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

Yes, I'm acknowledging that you had driver error. And I can accept that I have driver error as well, this being my first manual. HOWEVER, when it happens to my father, who drove a manual for longer than some people on these boards have been alive for, my friend who has been driving a manual for several years, and two honda techs.. then I start to beleive it IS the car. And even if it somehow wasn't the car.. don't you think this car was designed somewhat shittily if 5 people proficient with manuals are having trouble shifting it properly?

What were the other cars they have driven. Did any of them rev as high as the SI? (I am going to go out on a limb and say no). But, it is still possible.

[I Vtec, do you?]

Originally Posted by dualdiagnosis

What were the other cars they have driven. Did any of them rev as high as the SI? (I am going to go out on a limb and say no). But, it is still possible.

No they didn't. I'm not sure where you're going with this though.. the whole allure of an SI is its high revving engine, so I fail to see why that should be a factor in the grinding.

Anyways, I'm done with this back and forth. I see your points, and I respect/understand them. But I'm still standing behind mine - It could be me.. my dad, my friend and the two honda techs. Or it could be the car. And if it IS driver error.. well then I still blame the car because no car should have grinding issues so prevalent like this.

[Special Ringpop]

My second very, very occassionally grinds when I try to engage it, but all of my problems occur in 3rd gear.

I don't believe that the majority of time it is caused by driver error. I think it sometimes is, but there are way, way, way too many threads on this forum describing the problems I haev down the very last nitty-gritty detail for it to be sheer dumb luck.

A friend of mine has a 2004 Mazda RX-8, and his transmission shifts like freaking butter. I don't think he has ever had it grind or pop out on him. That is NOT normal transmission behavior, I don't care how much people want to attempt to justify it.

Yes, there are things you can do to "band aid it", but I have went as far as I'm willing to go, as I am irresistibly stubborn and I will not pay money to have something that should not be happening fixed.

[dualdiagnosis]

The alliance of Special Ringpop has arrived. Later!!!

[portabuddy]

Originally Posted by Special Ringpop

My second very, very occassionally grinds when I try to engage it, but all of my problems occur in 3rd gear.

I don't believe that the majority of time it is caused by driver error. I think it sometimes is, but there are way, way, way too many threads on this forum describing the problems I haev down the very last nitty-gritty detail for it to be sheer dumb luck.

A friend of mine has a 2004 Mazda RX-8, and his transmission shifts like freaking butter. I don't think he has ever had it grind or pop out on him. That is NOT normal transmission behavior, I don't care how much people want to attempt to justify it.

Yes, there are things you can do to "band aid it", but I have went as far as I'm willing to go, as I am irresistibly stubborn and I will not pay money to have something that should not be happening fixed.

the rx8 is what i was going to buy, or should have bought


Did you check out the pics i posed on the first page???, it had my invoive from the 3rd gear thing.

[portabuddy]

Originally Posted by portabuddy

ok as promised, here is a pic of my invoice that i got reprinted om monday since i lost my old one, but this one has a pats list on it and the old one didnt...






this just proves that the dealersip found a problem with my car and fixed it nothing more but good luck...

bump for you

[I Vtec, do you?]

Originally Posted by dualdiagnosis

The alliance of Special Ringpop has arrived. Later!!!

He does make a valid point, though. If it's driver error, why do so many people on these boards complain of it? There comes a point when it's like enough.. this car's tranny wasn't built to handle what the engine is capable of.

[dualdiagnosis]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

He does make a valid point, though. If it's driver error, why do so many people on these boards complain of it? There comes a point when it's like enough.. this car's tranny wasn't built to handle what the engine is capable of.

You know what the best thing about this car is??













































You can get rid of it if you are not happy with it!!!

[portabuddy]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

He does make a valid point, though. If it's driver error, why do so many people on these boards complain of it? There comes a point when it's like enough.. this car's tranny wasn't built to handle what the engine is capable of.

^^ it might me because they made the gears narrower then the rsx's tro fit under the hood...

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

Yes, I'm acknowledging that you had driver error. And I can accept that I have driver error as well, this being my first manual. HOWEVER, when it happens to my father, who drove a manual for longer than some people on these boards have been alive for, my friend who has been driving a manual for several years, and two honda techs.. then I start to beleive it IS the car. And even if it somehow wasn't the car.. don't you think this car was designed somewhat shittily if 5 people proficient with manuals are having trouble shifting it properly?

i know this has been brought up already... but the fact that this car revs higher than most ppl are used to, means they will prolly not know how to shift in it...

the statement about the Honda techs driving the car proves nothing b/c in reality those ppl are just normal ppl not Honda specialists... i mean sure yeah they work at Honda and know some things about Honda's but that doesn't mean they have good driver skills... I worked @ two different dealerships b4, i know most of those ppl don't know what they're doing... they just know how to change oil and loosen bolts... ohh and put air in tires... i can go on and on about what goes on behind the tech doors...

i'm happy for you that your Honda dealership has found a problem with YOUR tranny and u have documented proof of that... but that still doesn't prove that Honda is gonna fix everyone's 2nd gear...

if you want i can tell you how to shift into second... as a matter of fact i'll be back i'm gonna make a video of how to shift second gear... i'll post it up in a few mins...

Originally Posted by dualdiagnosis

The alliance of Special Ringpop has arrived. Later!!!

[Special Ringpop]

Fear my supposed alliance. Fear it.

(PS: My alliance is has "right" on its side )

[dualdiagnosis]

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

i know this has been brought up already... but the fact that this car revs higher than most ppl are used to, means they will prolly not know how to shift in it...

the statement about the Honda techs driving the car proves nothing b/c in reality those ppl are just normal ppl not Honda specialists... i mean sure yeah they work at Honda and know some things about Honda's but that doesn't mean they have good driver skills... I worked @ two different dealerships b4, i know most of those ppl don't know what they're doing... they just know how to change oil and loosen bolts... ohh and put air in tires... i can go on and on about what goes on behind the tech doors...

i'm happy for you that your Honda dealership has found a problem with YOUR tranny and u have documented proof of that... but that still doesn't prove that Honda is gonna fix everyone's 2nd gear...

if you want i can tell you how to shift into second... as a matter of fact i'll be back i'm gonna make a video of how to shift second gear... i'll post it up in a few mins...

Exactly what I was trying to convey.

[ErichPryde]

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

I actually got this a while ago, but after seeing several times lately people saying "2nd gear is driver error" I decided to post this up...

...So yes, all of you who preached that 2nd gear was a driver error can either accept that it isn't, or blame the two techs for having shitty manual driving skills. Your choice.

I just had to post this up so people will stop saying 'learn to shift'. It gets annoying

as several other people have already stated, the fact that you are having issues with second does NOT prove that everyone is. also, I have no doubt that these technicians had very little experience driving your Si. Every time I drive my friend's five-speed fit, I have some minor issues shifting it just right because I am not familiar with the way the clutch releases. I am used to my own car. if I drove the fit around for a week, I'd be fine.
further, I have some minor issues when I (rarely) drive my mom's 325xi around. the clutch releases differently on THAT car as well, and I'm not used to it.
the fact is, every manual shifts differently, and if you aren't used to driving a specific car, you might have some issues. If I drove all three of those vehicles several times a week, I'm sure I would get used to them, but I don't. I drive the fit once a month (or less) and I drive the 325xi (which I despise, by the way- it was 37,000 brand new and I hate it) even less than that.

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

i'm happy for you that your Honda dealership has found a problem with YOUR tranny and u have documented proof of that... but that still doesn't prove that Honda is gonna fix everyone's 2nd gear...

^COMPLETELY agreed. If honda is going to fix your transmission, that's fine, but it doesn't mean that the honda dealership here has to UNTIL Honda Motor Company of America puts out a service bulletin requiring all of the dealerships to.

Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you?

He does make a valid point, though. If it's driver error, why do so many people on these boards complain of it? There comes a point when it's like enough.. this car's tranny wasn't built to handle what the engine is capable of.

that's funny... the only gear that I had problems with that I KNEW weren't my fault were third gear issues. changing to amsoil solved that almost completely, although every once and a while it feels slightly notchy.
since switching to amsoil, I have not had this transmission refuse third. not one single time. Honda obviously accepted that there was a problem with the fluid they were using, because they changed it. I also read that Honda stated there WAS a factory overfill. I believe that fixing those two issues will solve most of your transmission woes.

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

i know this has been brought up already... but the fact that this car revs higher than most ppl are used to, means they will prolly not know how to shift in it...

Originally Posted by dualdiagnosis

I do not grind 2nd gear anymore as stated in the above post. I am also running Honda MTF.

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

i'm gonna say here that 2nd gear IS driver error... i've done it tons of times in the past... i even thought there was something wrong with 2nd but after i LEARNED to shift on THIS car i don't have the problem as much... i'm not gonna say ever b/c i still do grind 2nd... but it's mainly b/c of me...

I also completely agree with the three above statements. I DO grind second, but every time I do so I absolutely know that I am probably going to do it while I'm trying to shift. there is a fine art of letting it rev just high enough, but not quite too high. once you get this balance figured out, you can speed shift like mad to your hearts content.
I think the reason we are seeing this issue in second is because of how relatively "short" second gear really is. I vtec, are you referring to the shift FROM first and into second? I believe that you are. the shift is so relatively quick that if you don't time it correctly, you will end up revving the car too high. once the car is bouncing off of the rev limiter, it does NOT want to go into gear. go try bouncing your car off of the rev limiter in 3rd and then immediately shifting into 4th. it will reject you. you have a split second to get the 1st/2nd shift absolutely perfect at engine speeds that high.

What I just said probably applies to the majority of the people ON this site. most of them just need to get used to the car and learn to drive. you would be amazed if you knew how many completely grown adults I know that SUCK at driving manuals. Either because they don't care, or they aren't skilled enough, whatever- I know lots of people who can't drive a manual skillfully. there is an art to it, and I think this is the reason some people prefer automatics. they just won't take the time to drive a manual correctly.

this is the same reason you see such a wide variety of times stated for the speeds of our car- some people just can't be bothered to learn. I honestly believe that some people are just incompetent and don't mind remaining incompetent so they just wander through life without bothering to learn much of anything that isn't of their immediate concern.

now, it's quite possible that you have a "special needs" transmission, but I think that if you just slowed down for a second, and paid attention to what your transmission and engine are doing, most of your problems would go away.