Screw the Maintenance Minder System

[ffswizzlestick]

You can get synthetic at your dealer, so I would have to say that they wouldn't deny simply based on the fact that you didn't get your oil changed when the wrench popped up.

[shipo]

Originally Posted by ffswizzlestick

You can get synthetic at your dealer, so I would have to say that they wouldn't deny simply based on the fact that you didn't get your oil changed when the wrench popped up.

Two points:

• Please understand that Honda (the company that designed and built your car), and your local Honda dealer(s) (the companies that sell and service cars in the field) are two discretely different corporate entities.
• In addition, please understand that what your particular dealer may or may not have on hand has nothing what-so-ever to do with Honda's warranty requirements. If you cannot prove that you've changed your oil on time, every time, Honda has every right to deny warranty coverage if a premature engine failure occurs.

[ffswizzlestick]

But the dealer has a lot to do with whether or not they do the warranty work.
If your engine failed it wasn't because you didn't change the oil when the car said to.

[shipo]

Originally Posted by ffswizzlestick

But the dealer has a lot to do with whether or not they do the warranty work.
If your engine failed it wasn't because you didn't change the oil when the car said to.

What?

If you have your dealership put in synthetic oil and then you choose to drive a couple of thousand miles beyond the point where the MM suggests an oil change and then suffer an engine failure, Honda can deny you warranty coverage.

[Yodums]

Originally Posted by ffswizzlestick

But the dealer has a lot to do with whether or not they do the warranty work.
If your engine failed it wasn't because you didn't change the oil when the car said to.

You're right. The fact that you didn't change you oil may not have been directly related to the failure of your engine. However, if you didn't follow the warranty procedure, then they could deny you based on that. You would have to really go out of your way to prove that the oil wasn't the direct cause of the failure.

[KenB]

The car knows. Trust the car.

My Uncle's last car was a turbo diesel Benz that had its own Maintenance Minder on it. Diesels are notorious for being tough on oil. The MM pinged him to change the oil about every 8K depending on how hard it was being driven. He traded it in last Spring with 198,000 mile on the odometer. Never a problem.

My Si sedan has 1700 miles and the MM says I'm at 80%. I'll trust it to do its job.

[CiViCDooD]

people who know nothing about changing oils and all this other hi-tech stuff, MM system FTW!

[FrostyGT2]

Funny thing is, I started this thread to see if anyone knew of a checklist, or something to tell me what to do at what mileages so I could save some money and do things myself.... I was talking to the kid at tires plus where I was getting alignment and he printed such a sheet out. I called honda, searched the net and this forum, and asked all of you and Tries Plus randomly helps me. Thanks anyways.

[07LX]

I have done 2 oil changes in my car so far and I followed the MM... First one came at 5K Honda changed it...Second oil change was scheduled for 5K after that...MM told me 4,238 miles later that I need B1 service.

I looked at the price sheet and what they do I went to Honda talked to them, I told him what I need, oil change and tire rotation..he asked me the other things they looked at and checked and I told him everything is fine. So instead of paying 110 for B1 service I payed 40 bucks for a A1 service.

[Kidekat]

Originally Posted by ffswizzlestick

Why is it that everyone thinks they know more about the car than the people who designed and built it?

Because the ones that designed and built it would be broke if you didn't buy a new car every few years.

I don't trust the maintence minder pure an simple. I feel it it more for super busy lifestyle with oil changes very low on the priority list.

Imagine if they used it on airplanes, rather than going by hours of flight.

[shipo]

Originally Posted by Kidekat

Because the ones that designed and built it would be broke if you didn't buy a new car every few years.

I don't trust the maintence minder pure an simple. I feel it it more for super busy lifestyle with oil changes very low on the priority list.

Imagine if they used it on airplanes, rather than going by hours of flight.

Like it or not there is a huge body of scientific evidence that proves that the OLM systems currently being used my many manufacturers are very effective.

Your analogy to airplanes is a bit odd. Modern FADEC controlled airplanes do in fact use such predictive systems; however, trying to retrofit such a system to the 1945 vintage technology O-300 that I occasionally fly behind just isn't practical. That said, I think such an idea is wonderful.

[ffswizzlestick]

Originally Posted by Kidekat

Because the ones that designed and built it would be broke if you didn't buy a new car every few years.

I don't trust the maintence minder pure an simple. I feel it it more for super busy lifestyle with oil changes very low on the priority list.

Imagine if they used it on airplanes, rather than going by hours of flight.

The MM does use the amount you drive actually.

[Yodums]

Originally Posted by FrostyGT2

Funny thing is, I started this thread to see if anyone knew of a checklist, or something to tell me what to do at what mileages so I could save some money and do things myself.... I was talking to the kid at tires plus where I was getting alignment and he printed such a sheet out. I called honda, searched the net and this forum, and asked all of you and Tries Plus randomly helps me. Thanks anyways.

Here you go: Maintenance Schedule and Pricing Menu

[FrostyGT2]

thanks yodums, that is all i was looking for

[ryker]

Originally Posted by Yodums

Again, not many people on these boards are using the recommended oil. Why would I follow the maintenance minder if I'm using an oil such as Amsoil XLF? Conversely, what about the people who are running a forced induction setup?

I agree that the MM is suited for dino oil and a high quaility synthetic oil would be able to go well beyond the MM limits. The debate is that most people like to follow a 3k or 5k number and that is typically WAY too low for dino oil.

Forced induction would be better suited at establishing a baseline with UOA. Once again many factors would be involved. Daily driver that doesn't use WOT all the time verse a weekend drag car...

[ryker]

Originally Posted by shipo

I was working at Mercedes-Benz when they were developing their OLM system for synthetic oil, in the end the engineers determined that there was just a single metric that needed to be measured to determine when the oil should be changed. The metric? The number of liters of fuel used since the last reset. FWIW, BMW determined the same thing and that is the only metric they use as well.

Fuel consumption is based on engine load and average engine speed. Since the modern engines keep pretty constant temps and have a pretty clean air filter. Fuel consumption would be a good method ---- and since BMW and MB did the lab testings..

[ryker]

Originally Posted by Yodums

Here you go: Maintenance Schedule and Pricing Menu

That is NOT an offical Honda list. It is simply a stealerships method to get more work.

I would think a moderator would be aware of this or at least edit that posting since it is misleading.

[shipo]

Originally Posted by ryker

That is NOT an offical Honda list. It is simply a stealerships method to get more work.

I would think a moderator would be aware of this or at least edit that posting since it is misleading.

Good catch. I was too lazy to follow the link before. An oil change at 3,750 miles in this day and age. Absurd! That dealership and all dealerships that recommend such a service ought to be severely chastised for their fleecing of the driving public. Grrrr.

[si_civic]

20,000km and already 4 oil changes. That's normal, no? I never let it go below 20%

[Yodums]

Originally Posted by ryker

I would think a moderator would be aware of this or at least edit that posting since it is misleading.

Sorry for the misinformation, but being a moderator doesn't necessarily mean I automatically know more information than a regular user.