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Old 09-29-2007, 11:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Everyone with Third Gear Problems...

I am noticing that third gear popping threads are being made faster than rabbits make a new generations so here it goes...

Popping or grinding can be caused by...
  • A bad/worn synchronizer
  • A bad/worn shift rail
  • A bad/worn ball assembly that connects to the shift rail(the clicking sound you here when you shift while standing still, 1st to 2nd click, click)
  • A misaligned shift boot but that is VERY rare

Hard shifting can be caused by...
  • Low transmission fluid
  • Thicker than specification transmission fluid
  • A misaligned shift boot, but again VERY rare

What does this tell you? It is to my belief(have yet to crack open a FG2/FA5 transmission but will soon) that Honda may have made either...
A. Poorly made the second shift rail
B. Poorly made the third gear synchronizer.

How can you tell this? Change out your transmission fluid.
How? There is a drain and a fill plug on your transmission. Put a bucket under your drain plug/bolt and take out the drain bolt/plug and allow all of the transmission fluid drain into the bucket(will drain faster if the fill plug/bolt is off too). Put the drain bolt/plug back in and fill the transmission fluid through the fill plug/bolt. Simple.

See if there is a film of shiny almost gold like stuff floating on the surface of the transmission fluid you have just emptied. Why? Synchronizers are made of brass and is the only thing that is brass in the transmission therefore if you see a good amount of brassy film in the transmission fluid than the synchronizer is worn a good amount.

If not than it is the shift rail and/or ball assembly that is worn allowing the shift rail, allowing the shift fork, allowing the gear to pop out.

The picture below is a shift rail, there is a ball that pops out of one rivit on the far left and pops into the next one over and so fourth. If the rail is worn down or if the spring that holds the ball down gets weak it can easily pop out of gear. See how the old shift rail in the first picture is worn down compared to the new one...



Pictures of synchronizers(blocking rings, same thing)...



Pretty huh? The purpose of a blocking ring is to allow the gear to shift smoothly. Making the gear be engaged with a > into a < type motion instead of a ] into a [ type motion. So if the blocking ring is worn than it will be a > into a [ which will cause resistance and noise. As you can kind of see in the first picture...

Switching transmission fluids(synthetic fluids) or even using engine oil such as 10w30(lighter and/or synthetic) will help your problem temporarily. However it is a "band-aid fix" type thing especially if it is your synchronizers that are bad.

TLDR(Too Long, Didn't Read): If you are the person that sits at a stoplight shifting your car through gears, stop. Also, stop resting your hand on the shifter, it will cause the gear to slowly pull on the synchronizer causing it to wear much faster...

Update from Greg:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighRev1


I finally found it, "The original double-cone synchromeshes on the 5-6 gearset are replaced with newer single-cone synchros, which reduce friction on the other forward gearsets (1-2, 3-4) and should allow for smoother shifts. New shift cables with stiffer bushings are installed to reduce play in the shifter and improve gear engagement."

See I am not crazy This is for the RSX but could be an issue. GREG

Last edited by KingMarineM16a4; 10-22-2007 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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VERY GOOD INFO!
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dominicanto17dr
VERY GOOD INFO!
Ditto, but you forgot to mention that the problems can also be caused by poor shifting habits, shifting too hard/fast/aggressively or inexperience that comes with a new driver.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have 2 Si's and they both shift perfect. Amsoil MTF in both just in case.

Changing the MTF can help, but so can shifting a little slower, thus allowing the syncros to do their job.

Decent info.
http://www.dieselgeek.com/a_word_abo...nsmissions.php
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Old 10-14-2007, 01:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DumbasSi
Ditto, but you forgot to mention that the problems can also be caused by poor shifting habits, shifting too hard/fast/aggressively or inexperience that comes with a new driver.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have 2 Si's and they both shift perfect. Amsoil MTF in both just in case.

Changing the MTF can help, but so can shifting a little slower, thus allowing the syncros to do their job.

Decent info.
http://www.dieselgeek.com/a_word_abo...nsmissions.php
I think that is self explanatory which is why I left it out. People know when they abuse a transmission.
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Old 10-14-2007, 02:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I noticed that I wasn't pushing the clutch to total disingagement all of the time. I rectified that by moving my seat up a notch to move my leg motion further up. I havent had a problem yet.
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Old 10-14-2007, 11:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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how many quarts of fluid fit into the 6 speed tranny . My g/f's si only as 6,000on and she's just starting to notice third acting up , but does not happen all the time. I'm going to change it over to the amsoil Synthetic Manual Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (MTF) SAE 5W-30. Hopefully this will solve the problem. Its funny she doesn't drive the car hard at all and always as shifted perfect since she's owned it . I hope nothing is wrong with , but hey its stil 100% stock . So if something goes we still got the warranty.
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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i believe it's 1.6.
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i have 3500 miles and my 3rd gear has been acting up for a few weeks. i took it to the dealership and they said they couldn't find anything. then i checked the meter and they only put a few miles on it.

so is changing the fluid the best fix so far?
i don't drive my car that hard so it cant be a rail or syncro already.
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well since our cars are so low in miles maybe we can save our trany's and put the better oil in them and wait to see what happens. Maybe enough of trany's will start breaking and they will do a recall , but till then wait till it totally blews out and let ur warranty pay for it. just make sure ur car is stock otherwise honda can void ur warranty.
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Old 10-22-2007, 02:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondasilovers
Well since our cars are so low in miles maybe we can save our trany's and put the better oil in them and wait to see what happens. Maybe enough of trany's will start breaking and they will do a recall , but till then wait till it totally blews out and let ur warranty pay for it. just make sure ur car is stock otherwise honda can void ur warranty.
Uh oh.... , guess I better take it in now with just the intake in before I get the stage 2 cams, exhaust, header, etc.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Uh oh.... , guess I better take it in now with just the intake in before I get the stage 2 cams, exhaust, header, etc.
It won't void your warranty...

Read another sticky...

Aftermarket mods and Honda warranty / Will this void my warranty?
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The original --> "J" <--
Great write up ..repped.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I meant to stay stop resting your hand on the shifter in the bolded part, edited now..
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Ughh.. I want to take it in to the dealer, but I know for a fact they're going to keep my car in for a long time. I NEED IT! Im always busy and I cant imgagine myself 1. not driving 2. driving another car 3. taking bus/train 4.etc But hey, its under warranty so i gotta take advantage of it. I get so pissed off when im bout to turn into a left or right street meanwhile im at 2nd going into 3rd while turning and all of a sudden 3rd gear pops right back in. I HATE THAT!
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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good write up. i like it
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Old 10-31-2007, 11:01 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Yea i'm gonna keep taking my car back to my dealer until they tear the tranny open and really fix it.
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:36 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I am starting to get disapointed. My 2007 Civic Si has only 3,200 miles and 3rd gear is acting up for the last couple of days. I had a 2003 Hyundai Tib V6, since new, and drove 37,000 on it and never had a problem with the transmission. I can't believe this is happening with only 3,000 miles. I like to redline once in a while but I'm always been carefull about the transmission. I've never try to squeeze this car in 3rd. I hate having to take the car to warranty for something like this because they probably won't find anything wrong and abuse while driving my car. I am going to try switching to synthetic and see what happens. I like Mobil 1 but I maybe try Amsoil any recommendations?
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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CNN review of the 2007 civic SI

"Honda Civic Si

Likes: Trendy sleek design and sloping hood, sporty interior

Dislikes: Not enough guts going into third and fourth gears

MSRP: $21,310 to $23,060

Fuel economy range: 32 mpg hwy, 23 mpg city

I was surprised at the subtle exterior shape of the four-door Honda Civic Si. I mean, from one angle it looks like your typical family sedan, but then you glance again and the Honda Civic shows its true colors as a truly trendy ride. The glossy black model I road tested recently prompted lots of looks, mostly from college-aged guys, with this Civic's sexy sloping hood and overall modern look.

With all of the Honda Civic's good looks, there's also the fuel efficient 2.0-liter, 16-valve, four-cylinder engine, which garners 32 mpg highway and 23 mpg city, even while producing a strong 197 hp at a high-revving 7800 rpm. One of the gripes I had was how the transmission in the Honda Civic Si did not respond smoothly when shifting into third and fourth gears -- something that is surprising as Honda is known for smooth-shifting manual transmissions.

Inside, I enjoyed the Honda Civic's minimalist interior. The bubble-like information center in the dash just above the steering wheel is actually rather soothing and not at all distracting. The steering wheel has loads of built-in features and the overall interior design is pleasing and comfortable.

As always, I am not excited by Honda's navigation and entertainment system. While Honda's GPS system offers great functionality, I've used systems with better interface and graphics."

Even they complained about the 3rd gear being a **** bird.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayof...fun/index.html
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:29 AM   #19 (permalink)
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so is there an actual fix? i read through the write ups... If i take it in telling them about how it pops out and grinds will they actually fix it?
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Old 11-14-2007, 12:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DOHCKLR View Post
so is there an actual fix? i read through the write ups... If i take it in telling them about how it pops out and grinds will they actually fix it?
No, the transmission usually gets replaced if they take it that far. But replacing the tranny isn't going to do much good since they are the SAME tranny. You can switch out your MTF for a TEMPORARY FIX.
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