A/C PAG 46 volume/quantity and adding oil - 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum
8thCivic.com

Go Back   8th Generation Honda Civic Forum > Honda Civic Technical > Mechanical Problems & Technical Chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-27-2015, 10:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 14
A/C PAG 46 volume/quantity and adding oil

**2006 1.8 L Civic LX Sedan**

I'm replacing my compressor, condenser, receiver/drier, and expansion valve. The compressor is shot, the clutch won't engage when connected to a 12 V source and there is debris floating around in the recovered PAG 46. The new clutch will engage when connected to a 12 V source ruling out the relay and fuse.

I'm trying to figure out the volume of PAG to add to the system. I bought an aftermarket compressor, receiver/drier, and expansion valve from Comfort Auto and I flushed the evaporator, and will flush the lines when I'm ready to put everything back together.

I'm trying to figure out how much PAG needs to be added back to the system. Comfort Auto said 5.5, the 2006-2009 shop manual says

A/C condenser 50 mL/1.66 fl oz
Evaporator 40 mL/1.33 fl oz
Line or hose, 10 mL/.33 fl oz
Receiver/drier, 10 mL/.33 fl oz
Leakage repair, 25 mL/.83 fl oz
A/C compressor Since the oil separator is equipped inside the compressor for this vehicle, oil drainage is unnecessary at the time of compressor replacement. That nets to ca. 4.5 fl oz.

Comfort Auto and a number of sites on the web quote 5.5 fl oz. I called a Honda dealer and the parts clerk told me he didn't have a number but that he always puts in 6 fl oz.

I didn't realize it when I put the compressor on the car that the sticker said that oil was already added (though no max/min volume nor how much oil the compressor contained) so now I need to take the condenser fan and compressor back off and drain it to determine how much is in there...but I don't know how much total oil I should add. 5.5-6 oz is not that significant, 8%, but 4.5 to 6 oz is 25%.

Does anyone have a good number for this?

If it matters, the compressor I bought is labeled:
Sigma JP A/C Compressor
To Fit 14-0250NEW
20150514
Made in PRC [probably not a good sign]
Refrigerant HFC134a
Oil: PAG 46
Oil already added

Again, I don't know how much oil is in there, Comfort Auto couldn't tell me so I guess I'm going to drain and discard. I don't really see a point in keeping it, especially over the next 12 hours it is going to be b/w 75-95% RH.

Next question: I was at AutoZone and purchased "Certified A/C Pro Auto Air Conditioning R134a 1st Charge with ICE 32" in a 12.5 oz can. If I recall correctly the sticker under the hood recommends a minimum of 14.5 oz of 134a. The can states that its contents are 11 oz of R-134a, 1 oz of ICE 32 lubricant, and 0.5 oz drying agent. I'm assuming that these numbers are weights since the front of the can claims 12.5 oz net weight. Does anyone have any experience with this? Assuming an empty system and that all of the "First Charge" goes into the system, does this mean I should cut back on the volume of oil put into the compressor? Does anyone have any idea what the density of PAG is? I found something suggesting it is just under 1 g/mL so 1 wt oz should be ca. 0.96 fl. oz. or 28.4 mL.

Final question: Where do you add the PAG oil? There is obviously the suction/inlet side and the pressure/outlet side of the compressor. I was told to put all the oil in the suction inlet for the entire system (after the compressor was drained). There is, however, a 17 mm plug on the end of the compressor opposite the pulley. Is this for oil addition/removal? Does it serve another function?

Thanks in advance...

Last edited by 9OXKNmSqEIT; 07-27-2015 at 10:18 PM.
9OXKNmSqEIT is offline  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-27-2015, 10:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 14
Also, if there is some way to change my user name, that would be stellar... Password manager fouled things up.
9OXKNmSqEIT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-28-2015, 08:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 14
Compressor:
Attachment 161402
First Charge R134a:
Attachment 161418
Attachment 161410
9OXKNmSqEIT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-30-2015, 03:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 14
Any help would be appreciated.
9OXKNmSqEIT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-31-2015, 08:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 14
one last bump
9OXKNmSqEIT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-01-2015, 04:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TheIncident88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MD
Posts: 3,907
Chris
Garage
You can add oil to the compressor inlet before installing it, or inject it into the low side service fitting using a special tool. If adding a bunch of oil to the compressor, make sure to rotate it by hand before reinstalling the belt.

All of the numbers are simply estimates. Short of replacing the entire system or removing and draining each component you won't get close to an exact figure. Just give it your best guess, I've never found it to be terribly sensitive in the real world.
TheIncident88 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2015, 05:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
volvo9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North Attleboro, MA
Age: 32
Posts: 4,202
Andrew
I wouldn't worry about it too much... It's not a super sensitive system, and as incident stated, the numbers for part replacement oil quantity is simply an estimate. When I was younger I worked at a few dealers liked watching the guys do AC work, but I saw techs squirting UV dye oil and charge oil in all the time, even when just doing recharges... so these systems were always overcharged with oil. I've also had quite a few used cars which also always seemed to have UV dye oil added, and that's just an addition, they never remove any to compensate as you have to pull the compressor.

I just replaced my condenser and I left the old unit sitting for a few days at an angle that would allow all the oil to drain out of it and the dryer. I got about a teaspoon, so I didn't even bother replacing it. When I recharged it I vacuumed it down, and added a whole 12oz can of plain R134a, and guessed at another 1/4 of another can. You don't want to overcharge it as efficiency goes down, it's a very low capacity system.

In my opinion I only buy "clean" R134a. Even when they are on sale at the end of the season I don't pick up the ones with other additives in there. At least yours doesn't appear to have leak stopper, but it does have a "compatible" oil and whatever the heck a drying agent is, so I'd subtract that oil from your total oil volume.
volvo9 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2015, 09:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TheIncident88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MD
Posts: 3,907
Chris
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by volvo9 View Post
When I was younger I worked at a few dealers liked watching the guys do AC work, but I saw techs squirting UV dye oil and charge oil in all the time, even when just doing recharges... so these systems were always overcharged with oil. I've also had quite a few used cars which also always seemed to have UV dye oil added, and that's just an addition, they never remove any to compensate as you have to pull the compressor.
Injecting dye is part of our normal AC service, though it's normally only 1/2 oz

The recovery machine will also suck some oil out with the refrigerant and spit it into a graduated container. If it's any significant amount, we add that back in. If it's a tiny amount, nobody is going to waste time doing it.

Agree on using plain 134. Refrigerant stop leak and other additives fall into the same category as the engine restore products, they should only be used on cars that simply aren't worth fixing properly, because they are often as likely to create a problem as they are to cure one.
TheIncident88 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oil quantity Chety Mechanical Problems & Technical Chat 9 09-16-2014 02:45 PM
Quality>Quantity Evil_SI Introduction & Pictures 78 02-25-2014 07:52 PM
Adding volume/mode controls to an LX model? jbsali I.C.E., Electrical, Security, & Navigation 3 01-22-2010 01:27 PM
How much pag oil for ac system?? D3liri0usK Mechanical Problems & Technical Chat 6 06-30-2009 02:34 PM
Adding oil before 1st oil change?? chris luva luva Mechanical Problems & Technical Chat 6 01-19-2008 08:30 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:59 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
copyright 8thcivic.com - all rights reserved