First oil change for an 06 Civic?

[jayjr98]

Guys,

I just bought a new Civic EX Sedan AT. I wouldn't trust this maintenance minder system at all b/c it will seriously extend your oil changes.

So everybody is bickering about what the proper interval is... here is my solution... use the maintenance schedule for the older, 7th gen civics.. I owned an '03 and it said in the owners manual to change oil every 10k for "normal" use and every 5k for "severe" use.

So since I live in the city, I changed my oil religiously with Honda 5w20 every 5k.

So what I will probably do is ignore the stupid maintenace minder system which only takes into account engine RPM and temp and maybe some other almost irrelevent factors and just stick to the 7th gen "severe" maintenace schedule for my oil changes, tranny flushes, etc.

I'm not telling anybody else to do this, just wanted to post my thoughts..

[AtmcBlueEXNav]

i knew it will be expensive for the dealer to change the oil but i did it because it is the first oil change and the filter might be too tight for me to remove. but since then i have bought synthetic 5w20 and filter and when it is due, i'll change them myself. i also don't want to rely on the MM, where can you buy those sticky thing that oil changers put at the windshield? or alternative... i am considering the sheet protector from the PDA's.

[GalaxyGreySi]

Napa carries the oil stickers... But anyway, I change mine every 5000 miles. Period. This is so that I stay within the honda recommended maintenence intervals. However, I think I will start using the maintenence minder system (car only has 500 miles on it right now, so it's not like I'm switching on a vehicle that hasn't been using the maintenence minder system). I am meeting with some guys from honda corporate in a few weeks; I will ask them about this. My dealership still recommends the 5k intervals, even on maintenence minder equipped cars, and I don't know if this is what corporate honda wants or not, since, they leave us pretty much alone. I like the idea of the maint. minder system though, since not only does it inform you of when to change the oil, but also when to change the trans fluid, the air filter, and so on. It tells you exactly what services the car is due for.

[amdhunter]

Got my first oil change done today at the dealer, at 3645 miles. Oil life had just hit the 15% mark yesterday.

[khunthun]

I got a question that relates to this in a way. I have a Si and it is my weekend car. I have had the car for 4 months and it barely broke the 1000 mi mark. Still has that "special break in" oil in it still. At this rate, by the end of the year I still wouldn't be at the recommended schedule change of 5000 miles. What shall I do? just change it when it gets to 6 months? Or go a little longer with the "special oil"?

[SodaGuy]

most UOA's show most dino breaking down and having a TBN of 1.1-1.2 around 4,500-5,000 miles

TBN is only one factor used to determine oil life. FTIR testing which shows oxidation/nitration levels is also important; or Insolubles/Flashpoint if the lab that you're using does not offering FTIR testing.

Its best to only use reports generated from an engine similar to one in your vehicle. I've seen Toyota 3.0L V6 engines deplete oil down to a TBN level of 1-1.5 within 5K, but 3.0L V6 Toyota engines are extremely hard on oil, not a fair comparison.

Lastly, TBN is just a value. Repeatability for this value isn't excellent, it will vary even in a blind test. Different labs use different testing protocols to obtain this value. Blackstone's value is obtained using a "non-standard" method and is consistently 1.5-2 pts lower than comparable labs.

Nevertheless, to answer the original questions: follow the maintenance minder system. It has been tested extensively for accuracy and to provide the longest possible oil change interval in your vehicle without compromising engine protection nor fuel efficiency. As with all oil life monitor systems, it will have a generous margin of error. More importantly, you must check your oil level regularly for the system to work correctly!

The "special oil" concept is very simple. All engines are treated with some assembly lube during the assembly. This assembly lube has a very concentrated dose of additives. When fresh oil is installed, this assembly lube is washed into the engine oil to provide additional anti-wear protection up until the first oil change interval.

The process is identical for nearly all engines on the market. Everyone uses assembly lube during engine assembly. However, Honda seems to be the only OEM who is adamant about leaving this oil fill in place. Evidently, the engineers strongly believe that the original oil fill containing assembly lube will provide additional anti-wear protection.

If one runs an UOA on the original oil fill, a high MoDTC content will be revealed. About 400ppm. While Havoline 5w-20 has a similar MoDTC content, there are many additives that do not show up on a $30 UOA so one should just play it safe and leave the original oil fill in for the recommended period of time.

But what about those who do not travel many miles during the course of a year? When should they change their oil? Try looking at it this way: with the maintenance minder system, oil changes can be required in as little as 3,000 miles to as high as 10,000 miles. So, at least from how I view it, the original oil fill should be left in for at least 3,000 miles. Evidently, Honda engineers are attempting to discourage some from changing the factory fill at 500 or 1000 miles.

In my personal opinion, leave the factory fill in until a change is called for. Otherwise, resist the temptation to change the oil until at least 3000 miles. Thereafter, follow your own maintenance schedule, whatever it may be. Personally, I've seen vehicles serviced per OLMs stay sludge free, but depending on the driving conditions, especially if the oil drains were > 5000 miles, I've seen some varnish buildup. The engines that were serviced at least every 5000 miles have stayed a bit cleaner. Those used for short trips stayed very clean if they were serviced every 3000 miles. Thus, one may consider using a synthetic oil if they intend to follow the maintenance minder system to maximize engine cleanliness. However, none of the engines I just described have been run on a SM/GF-4 oil from day one. The newest mineral oils are designed to go 5K and still have minimal buildup, so one who services their vehicle per the maintenance minder system with drains exceeding 5K may not experience the same varnish buildup I've seen after all.

[Jrfish007]

FYI, the reason Honda Engineers want you to keep the factory oil in so long is because of the high moly count. Honda uses a moly coated piston ring for low friction and the higher moly count is suppose to keep them from scratching up the cylinder to badly during break in I guess...

This is form Honda

Low friction, a key component to producing more power, is achieved through the application of Molybdenum Di-Sulfide (MoS2) piston coatings and cylinder sleeve plateau honing. Plateau honing lowers the friction level between the pistons and the cylinders by creating an ultra smooth surface. Plateau honing is a two stage machining process that uses two grinding processes instead of the more conventional single honing process. This also enhances the long-term wear characteristics of the engine. A low friction ion plated piston ring further reduces friction. In addition low viscosity oil (5W-20) is used to reduce friction.

[Jrfish007]

Originally Posted by SodaGuy

TBN is only one factor used to determine oil life. FTIR testing which shows oxidation/nitration levels is also important; or Insolubles/Flashpoint if the lab that you're using does not offering FTIR testing.

Yeah... I got 3 of those lol (the FTIR).... No really I do in my lab, I don't use them for oil analysis though.

[06SI-VTEC]

changed out my oil at 4200 the meter said 19 % left.

oil cost was 21.84.


2nd oil change will be Royal purple XRP 5W20.

[Jrfish007]

Originally Posted by 06SI-VTEC

changed out my oil at 4200 the meter said 19 % left.

oil cost was 21.84.


2nd oil change will be Royal purple XRP 5W20.

If you are going to drop that kind of money for oil, you can do better than RP. Not that RP is bad, but it has been shown many times to loose it's viscosity very early. Basically it is an oil for drag cars and such where the oil is changed less than 500 miles. It really isn't designed (IMO) for daily driving cars, I would only leave it in my car for about 4,500 miles (that when most people I've seen say it looses it's viscosity) and a decent dino oil can do. For around the same price you can pick up Red Line oil which is much better IMO. Just my .02

[06SI-VTEC]

Originally Posted by Jrfish007

If you are going to drop that kind of money for oil, you can do better than RP. Not that RP is bad, but it has been shown many times to loose it's viscosity very early. Basically it is an oil for drag cars and such where the oil is changed less than 500 miles. It really isn't designed (IMO) for daily driving cars, I would only leave it in my car for about 4,500 miles (that when most people I've seen say it looses it's viscosity) and a decent dino oil can do. For around the same price you can pick up Red Line oil which is much better IMO. Just my .02

does REDLINE offer a blend usefull with nos. thanx

[Jrfish007]

Originally Posted by 06SI-VTEC

does REDLINE offer a blend usefull with nos. thanx

When you are on bottle, you are generating quite a bit of heat, it is actually simliar to when you run boost of some sort. The important thing with nos is to have a good sythetic that can adsorbe the heat and not break down. For N2O I use just a decent synthetic, you can use Mobile 1 or Red Line or some other high quality synthetic, I think Red Line will give you little better protection being a thicker oil, but at the same time will make your engine not rev to high. So if you are tlaking about a normal R18 motor, I would go Red Line. If it is an Si that revs much higher, maybe a thinner oil like M1 would work a little better. I would try these two oils and see which works best for you.

[Jokieman]

Originally Posted by Jrfish007

See, this is interesting because I never said I know more then them, but you automatically said I do, thanks for the compliment though

Read more carefully, I said the engineers AT HONDA told me this is just a guide line.

I think the main problem I have with your original post is that you based the Oil's life on the color of it, when in fact the color of your Engine oil has very little to do with how it is holding up as has been proven on other forums by forum members who regularly have their oil tested by a lab.

The Sulfur content in the gas for your area might indeed be an issue, however the blackness of the oil means absolutely nothing in terms of whether or not it is bad or not.

Also remember that the actual dealerships make money on the changing of your oils/and other fluids, and this is in fact where they make the MOST profit.

If you're worried about it, then have it changed every 3-4k and be done with it, but as someone who is "supposed" to have more knowledge than most, I find you using the degree that your are "studying" for to lend credence to something that is totally false, a bit worrisome to say the least.

[Jokieman]

Originally Posted by GalaxyGreySi

Napa carries the oil stickers... But anyway, I change mine every 5000 miles. Period. This is so that I stay within the honda recommended maintenence intervals. However, I think I will start using the maintenence minder system (car only has 500 miles on it right now, so it's not like I'm switching on a vehicle that hasn't been using the maintenence minder system). I am meeting with some guys from honda corporate in a few weeks; I will ask them about this. My dealership still recommends the 5k intervals, even on maintenence minder equipped cars, and I don't know if this is what corporate honda wants or not, since, they leave us pretty much alone. I like the idea of the maint. minder system though, since not only does it inform you of when to change the oil, but also when to change the trans fluid, the air filter, and so on. It tells you exactly what services the car is due for.

They will tell you to use the MM device, it's why they freaking put the thing in the car in the first place. hehehehe.

[Jokieman]

Originally Posted by Jrfish007

If you are going to drop that kind of money for oil, you can do better than RP. Not that RP is bad, but it has been shown many times to loose it's viscosity very early. Basically it is an oil for drag cars and such where the oil is changed less than 500 miles. It really isn't designed (IMO) for daily driving cars, I would only leave it in my car for about 4,500 miles (that when most people I've seen say it looses it's viscosity) and a decent dino oil can do. For around the same price you can pick up Red Line oil which is much better IMO. Just my .02

Actually RP has a high sulfur content and is not good for the engine. It will increase wear, much like the gas you use there in Ohio.

[Jokieman]

Originally Posted by khunthun

I got a question that relates to this in a way. I have a Si and it is my weekend car. I have had the car for 4 months and it barely broke the 1000 mi mark. Still has that "special break in" oil in it still. At this rate, by the end of the year I still wouldn't be at the recommended schedule change of 5000 miles. What shall I do? just change it when it gets to 6 months? Or go a little longer with the "special oil"?

The problem with this is that the longer it sits in between uses the more condensation will build up in the oil, which will cause added wear on the engine until/if the oil gets hot enough to burn off the water that will collect.

Time is another factor. Things age with time, as does oil. In today's world you can do more damage to a car by not driving it, than you can by putting 10k miles on it in 6 months. Today's cars are meant to be driven on a daily basis. Otherwise seals can dry out, crack, etc. Fluids can become contaminated or age to a point where they will be worthless to you as protection for your vehicle.

For the break in period at least I would suggest making it your daily driver until you reach 3k, then change it and garage it if you want, but that oil you've got in there won't last forever.

Also remember if you don't drive your car for 30 days or so your gasoline is going to begin breaking down unless you add some stabilizer to it. The bad fuel will make your car run poorly until you can get it filled with a fresh tank full of fuel.

[Tyredurgan]

At 6700 miles my minder just got down to 5% i'm taking it in at the end of the week.

[06SI-VTEC]

Originally Posted by Jokieman

Actually RP has a high sulfur content and is not good for the engine. It will increase wear, much like the gas you use there in Ohio.

thanx

[06SI-VTEC]

Originally Posted by Jrfish007

When you are on bottle, you are generating quite a bit of heat, it is actually simliar to when you run boost of some sort. The important thing with nos is to have a good sythetic that can adsorbe the heat and not break down. For N2O I use just a decent synthetic, you can use Mobile 1 or Red Line or some other high quality synthetic, I think Red Line will give you little better protection being a thicker oil, but at the same time will make your engine not rev to high. So if you are tlaking about a normal R18 motor, I would go Red Line. If it is an Si that revs much higher, maybe a thinner oil like M1 would work a little better. I would try these two oils and see which works best for you.

thanx yeah when i go turbo im going with the new GREDDY oil line.oh yes it is out GREDDY oil.

[PhoenixDown]

As of yesterday, I have 3050 total miles on my car and my oil life meter is reading 60%.... thats feels to good to be true. Im gonna measure it tomorrow and see how it looks and change it out at 5k regardless.

I may get the second or third oil change tested to see if its really getting that kind of life.