Dealer changed Oil but not filter WTH..

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by killswitch21

I dont do 3k mile intervals.. Being as I get Good oil and filter everytime, I do about 6k-7k mile intervals.. Checking oil levels every 1-2k

I know 3k intervals is a thing of the past.. Hell alot of cars suggest 5k in the owners manual now..

Sorry, I'm not the best at the interwebs. I meant for that last statement to be a wrap up of sorts, not a continuation of my reply to you

It sounds like you're doing the right thing, choosing a conservative interval.

I follow the MM because it's easy and conservative (with my oil and filter choice) -- it doesn't require my wife to track anything other than pushing the button and telling me what the percentage is every so often. Even if she forgets to do that, the little wrench will eventually pop up to indicate that a change is coming due.

Because this engine is used so gently (my wife rarely gets above 4k RPM and my driving only accounts for maybe 2% of overall mileage,) I've been using just about any decent oil that I find on sale and changing it at 10-15% MM. I am, however, considering running an even better oil, sending out a sample for analysis, and maybe trying to extend my interval out to double that (down to 10-15%, change and reset MM, and then down to 10-15% again on the same oil and filter.) With an oil like M1 EP, PP/PU, or Edge, 12k miles+ should be very easy to attain.

I may send out for an UOA anyway, just to share with the community. I installed a Fumoto drain valve on both her Civic and my Subie, so obtaining a sample and topping off when the MM gets down to 15% will be easy to do AND allow for plenty of time to receive the report before I reach my normal have-to-change-the-oil-NOW point on the MM.

Unfortunately, I've got Maxlife 5W-20 in there, which I'm only running because it was on sale. For the sake of analysis, I'd like to keep the same oil in there for a few intervals so I can compare the first to the last directly (same chemistry,) and determine whether my extended interval is SAT.

Sorry for my digression, but hopefully I can provide some actual data, and if I only sway one person away from their ingrained early-change-interval habit I'll be happy. Regardless, I'm a big 'ol dork, so the data itself will be its reward. My wife rolling her eyes when I try to explain it to her is worth every penny, too!

[Fa5love]

I just like to keep fresh oil in my car. Hondas are very reliable as long as you change the oil so when my car runs forever lol and yours doesn't than.....

It's really not that much more money. I'd rather protect my investment then take a chance.


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[mrg24]

Oil is changed Filter ain't. The problem is I went with 30%. If I had gone with 15-10% they probably would have changed the filter. I don't drive much I had 30% on 5500 kms. Yes, I drove 5500 in a year so I guess the filter won't hurt me.

[BlownNHBPSI]

With as advanced as oils are today, especially if you are using synthetic then changing your oil at 3000 miles is just costing you more money as it isnt required.

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by Fa5love

I just like to keep fresh oil in my car. Hondas are very reliable as long as you change the oil so when my car runs forever lol and yours doesn't than.....

It's really not that much more money. I'd rather protect my investment then take a chance.


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Money isn't the issue. I hardly use anything less than quarters, but that doesn't mean I throw away all of the dimes, nickels and pennies I accumulate. Wasteful is wasteful.

Your car is not an investment, either. It's a machine, a tool that depreciates in value and has one sole purpose: to get you where you need to go, as cheaply as possible.

I'm also not sure if you've noticed how many older Civics are on the road today. I see a lot that are smoking and dripping oil around my area (probably due to running the oil level low and changing the oil too infrequently,) but they run and they run well. They're also very popular with "tuners," or those who install a fart cannon and rally-x their little POS around town, so these engines are a little more durable than you think.

With that being said, fresh oil does not lubricate or clean any better than half-used oil. The oil in your sump either has additives left to disperse and maintain clean your engine, to lubricate and cool your engine, or it doesn't. Changing your oil when it still has 50% or more of its life left buys you nothing but a hole in your wallet, plain and simple.

I'll say again that if you choose to change your oil sooner than necessary, you're doing it for you, for your peace of mind, not for the benefit of you motor. So, while I'll suggest against short intervals I won't attack you for doing so. To say that my engine will fail because I follow the MM is absolutely foolish. It is interesting seeing how people react when you shake the foundation for their thinking. The fact that there are STILL people who will fight you tooth and nail over an archaic 3k miles interval is astounding. It's almost as bad as those who not only preach shorter intervals, but also dump into their sumps garbage like Lucas or Motor Honey, as well as those who run 93 octane in their R18.

Originally Posted by mrg24

Oil is changed Filter ain't. The problem is I went with 30%. If I had gone with 15-10% they probably would have changed the filter. I don't drive much I had 30% on 5500 kms. Yes, I drove 5500 in a year so I guess the filter won't hurt me.

No guessing needed, only 3417 miles on your filter is nothing!

[roe956]

Check this out: thecarconnection.com Changing Your Oil Too Often? You Might Be Surprised

And this one: http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/02/22/oilchange-rant/

Info about oil: http://www.valvoline.com/car-care/motor-oil-myths/

http://www.topspeedracer.com/synthet...gular-oil.html

[ryker]

Originally Posted by gathermewool

I always find it interesting when people use anecdotes that include their buddies who work for the company, as if they carry any weight or know anything about the subject matter at all. Based on your post, you and your buddy are obviously making things up based on archaic oil tribology.

Three things:

1. It's Mobil 1

2. 3,000 mile intervals is ridiculous and antiquated, and you have nothing at all to show that the MM-indicated change interval is anything but conservative. You know who does? People who send out samples for analysis.

3. I don't care what kind of car you drive, the oil should be checked occasionally. Consuming oil is only an excuse for those who can't be bothered to maintain their vehicles properly, and a poor one at that.



Anything held within the pleats of the old filter will remain in the pleats of the old filter. The used oil held in the used filter will hold a relatively small portion of the overall volume of oil after an oil change, and will mix with the new oil and its additives. The result will be a negligible affect on OCI, and negligible affect on engine wear. Why won't it affect wear? Well, because even the used oil won't be used up, and most likely has sufficient additive levels remaining to clean itself up, requiring no help from the new oil. The new oil simply has a higher reserve.



A filter that is within its capacity for holding particulates will become MORE efficient as it is used, meaning it will filter better over time, not worse.

It's fine to be driven by how you feel, and it's ok if you'd like to change your oil and filter every 3k miles for PEACE of mind, but, as I always argue, where do you draw the line? A good filter will filter well for two MM-driven OCI's. The used oil remaining in the filter is inconsequential. This is the 21st century, people - get with the times!

Well said.

[ryker]

Originally Posted by Fa5love

1. It's call auto correct.

2.3000 miles is not ridiculous.

3. He has been a auto tech for 7 years. So Im just playing it safe and don't want to trust that kind of system. But you can do what you want lol hope everything works out for you.


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3000 miles is beyond ridiculous it's stupid.

Your auto tech buddy with 7 years of wrench experience is nothing compared to the engineer with 7 years of college and decades of testing oil in a million dollar lab. Plus these engineers in over 20 engine makers have all come to trust the science and all have long oil life standards.....

[Fa5love]

Originally Posted by ryker

3000 miles is beyond ridiculous it's stupid.

Your auto tech buddy with 7 years of wrench experience is nothing compared to the engineer with 7 years of college and decades of testing oil in a million dollar lab. Plus these engineers in over 20 engine makers have all come to trust the science and all have long oil life standards.....

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[07taffyfa5]

Just to clarify, there is NO MM for with or without a new oil filter. HONDA says change oil and filter together every 12.5k. I only speak the truth and always have proof to back up what i say. you want proof here it is in black and white.
Maintenance Schedule for Normal Conditions - European Model

[07taffyfa5]

Yes i know it says european model, but its the same exact crap minus a few emissions/u.s. safety standards.

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by 07taffyfa5

Yes i know it says european model, but its the same exact crap minus a few emissions/u.s. safety standards.

Huh?

http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/p.../ACV0808OM.pdf

MAIN ITEM A
Factory Recommended Maintenance
Replace engine oil.*

MAIN ITEM B/B1
Factory Recommended Maintenance
Replace engine oil* and filter.
Service front and rear brakes.
Check parking brake adjustments.
Rotate tires**, inspect for wear and adjust pressure.
Inspect tie rod ends, steering gear box and boots.
Inspect suspension components.
Inspect driveshaft boots.
Inspect brake hoses and lines (including ABS).
Check all fluid levels and condition of fluids.
Inspect exhaust system.
Inspect fuel lines and connections.

[ryker]

Originally Posted by 07taffyfa5

Just to clarify, there is NO MM for with or without a new oil filter. HONDA says change oil and filter together every 12.5k. I only speak the truth and always have proof to back up what i say. you want proof here it is in black and white.
Maintenance Schedule for Normal Conditions - European Model

12,500 miles on oil and oil filter in Europe.
8000 miles on oil in US. With oil filter every 16,000.


Tells me oil is good for at least the 8000 miles or so when my MM is zero. Such oil in Europe would still have 4500 miles of life.

My guess is the European oil filter must be changed at 12,500 because 25,000 would be way too long of an interval.

Both American and Eurpean models show that the oil and filter can last many many miles...

[Crazyj86]

they should have changed the filter.. that's bs and laziness!

[07taffyfa5]

Just so you know the MM system in the car does not know the actual condition of your oil, it uses a pre set calibration that uses the way you drive to attempt to determine when your oil must be changed. i usually go thru 2 MM before changing as my oil still looks like the day i put it in on the first MM, and i have 120k on my si.

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by Crazyj86

they should have changed the filter.. that's bs and laziness!

Welcome to the conversation...

Originally Posted by 07taffyfa5

Just so you know the MM system in the car does not know the actual condition of your oil, it uses a pre set calibration that uses the way you drive to attempt to determine when your oil must be changed. i usually go thru 2 MM before changing as my oil still looks like the day i put it in on the first MM, and i have 120k on my si.

Exactly, which is why I'll most likely put out the money for an UOA for my wife's Civic (I do every time in my Subie, allowing for extended OCI's) It would be nice to run MM X2, saving a little bit of time (and resources)

[Juicyjoint316]

Originally Posted by Fa5love

I don't listen to that 15% b.s. I do my oil change every 3000 miles and I use mobile1 and oem filter. DO NOT let the dealer do that to you it's is bull ****. These cars can loose up to a qt of oil every 1000-1500 miles and they want you to go to 7500? Depending on driving styles. I have a buddy that works at Honda and talked to him about it because when I bought my car they told me about that system and I didn't like it from the start so I figured I'd confront him about it and he said the same thing I did, DO NOT let the dealership do that to you. Just my opinion.


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you are wasting oil by changing it every 3k. its been scientifically proven modern cars out now doesnt need a oil change every 3k miles and can last up til 7-10k. Oil back then broke down sooner than expected and thats why "3k" interval was made up. Now with test done by Mobil and independent tests oil can last til 10k before it starts to break down. So your friend doesnt know ****.

Before i get the question would i wait 10k miles to change oil, hell no i wouldnt simply bc we have VTEC motor that requires oil pressure, coolant to engange vtec. But if it was a econo car that took 0w20 oil i would bc 0w20 is sythentic oil.

But i see other ppl linked that its fact that 3k miles is wasting oil

[Fa5love]

Originally Posted by Juicyjoint316

you are wasting oil by changing it every 3k. its been scientifically proven modern cars out now doesnt need a oil change every 3k miles and can last up til 7-10k. Oil back then broke down sooner than expected and thats why "3k" interval was made up. Now with test done by Mobil and independent tests oil can last til 10k before it starts to break down. So your friend doesnt know ****.

Before i get the question would i wait 10k miles to change oil, hell no i wouldnt simply bc we have VTEC motor that requires oil pressure, coolant to engange vtec. But if it was a econo car that took 0w20 oil i would bc 0w20 is sythentic oil.

But i see other ppl linked that its fact that 3k miles is wasting oil

Lol


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