Maintenance minder and synthetic oil question...

Paradox Lost · 02-11-2007, 08:28 PM

In the maintenance section of the manual, it says the following (the bold sections were done by me)

"If the remaining engine oil life is 15 to 6 percent, you will see the engine oil life indicator every time you turn the ignition switch to the ON position. The maintenance minder indicator will also come on, and the maintenance item code(s) for other scheduled maintenance items needing service will be displayed next to the engine oil life indicator.

The 15 and 10 percent indicator reminds you that the time is coming soon to take your vehicle in for the required service."

So far, this makes perfect sense, but on the very next page, it says the following:

"When the oil life is 15 to 1 percent, the maintenance minder indicator (wrench icon) comes on every time you turn the ignition switch to the ON position, then it goes out if you switch the information display.

When you see this message, have the indicated maintenance performed by your dealer as soon as possible."

So, I'm a little confused here. On the one hand, it says the oil needs to be changed soon when hitting 15 percent on the maintenance minder, but on the other, it means that it needs to be changed immediately. I'm starting to think that maybe it was a misprint, in that they meant to say that 15 to 6 percent means you will need an oil change soon, and 5 to 1 percent meaning the time is now.

I only ask this because my maintenance indicator light came on about 200 miles ago, but I haven't had the time to really get the oil change done. I always prefer to get it done right on schedule, so I've been careful with the car lately, and have limited my driving. But if I understand the manual correctly, I still have a while to go before I need to have the oil changed?

Also, my other question concerns the oil itself. I put in Mobile 1 Synthetic at my last oil change, but I'm wondering if that will even make a difference in terms of the maintenance minder. My understanding is that the maintenance minder doesn't actually 'know' the quality of your oil, as it simply uses a mathematical algorithm to compute the quality of your oil by taking into account a variety of factors. So by using this, it sort of assumes the quality of your oil based upon that algorithm.

I ask this question because I had standard 5W-30 in my car before I put in the MS1 synthetic, and my oil life (according to the indicator) appeared to deplete at essentially the same rate, and it was my understanding that synthetic is generally good for a longer period of time than regular oil. My Si only has about 10,500 miles on it, so I'm due for my second oil change, though the interval seems to be at 5,500 miles (based upon my driving habits and conditions).

So, my questions are basically:

-Does the 15 percent indicator mean it's time for an oil change, or it will soon be time for an oil change?

-If synthetic makes a difference in terms of the longevity of your oil life, would the maintenance minder be able to take into account that the oil I put in was synthetic?

And a last question I didn't really bring up, but would be interested to know is:

-How long can one safely go without an oil change?

Thanks for reading all that, everyone.

Civic4u · 02-11-2007, 08:38 PM

Mine went:

15%
10%
5%
0%
-25
-40
-167

I finally went to the dealership and get oil change.

I'm no oil expert, I assume they did put new oil into the car.
They said, "NO problems with your car. How do you like the new Civic?"

mishima8 · 02-12-2007, 07:49 PM

I believe the rate it declines is pretty standard. It's not analysing the oil etc. You would be fine running it for a while without changing the oil. Me, I have to add a 1/2 a quart every other week or so.

phillipguru · 02-13-2007, 04:19 PM

My oil life or service life meter hits 50-60% when I've gone about 5000 miles. I went 7000 before changing oil and I hit 30%. I drive 100% highway. Maybe once a month in the city, but its rare if i'm on a street that isnt 55mph

***AbsoluteGG*** · 02-13-2007, 08:50 PM

It is a little confusing to understand but I would change the oil between that time(15%-1%). BTW do you ever check your oil yourself? You should do that too since i doubt the meter is that 100% accurate. I've asked my Honda mechanic and he says just bring in the car when the wrench lights up or when it reaches to 0%.

phillipguru · 02-14-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbsoluteGG

It is a little confusing to understand but I would change the oil between that time(15%-1%). BTW do you ever check your oil yourself? You should do that too since i doubt the meter is that 100% accurate. I've asked my Honda mechanic and he says just bring in the car when the wrench lights up or when it reaches to 0%.

If I changed my oil at 0% I would probably be doing 10000 miles between changes, i would just go by mileage and not the meter

doug piston · 02-14-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillipguru

If I changed my oil at 0% I would probably be doing 10000 miles between changes, i would just go by mileage and not the meter

+1 every 5000 for me

warhead111 · 02-14-2007, 11:29 AM

I honestly feel IMO that the maintenance minder pretty much decreases at the same rate whether I use synthetic oil or not. It seems like it reaches approximately 15% whenever I accumulate 5,000 miles from when it was reset. So a concern for me is what if I reset the MM when I've already driven the car for 4,000 miles? In this case I'll need to change the oil when I drive an additional 1,000 miles, but will the MM go from 100% to 15% within 1,000 miles? I guess I'm not willing to test this out, but maybe someone can? =)

gbae007 · 02-14-2007, 11:45 AM

I don't think the computer knows if you are using synth oil or not. It just goes based on mileage, idling time, temperature - all factors that break down the oil.

Vince · 02-14-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbae007

I don't think the computer knows if you are using synth oil or not. It just goes based on mileage, idling time, temperature - all factors that break down the oil.

agree

phillipguru · 02-14-2007, 12:56 PM

people , the car doesnt have an oil analysis machine in the pan... synthetic or regular, it doesnt change anything on the maintenance minder. It takes load of engine, at rpm, tps and fuel load with engine temp. It creates a slow moving average to what amounts to how hard or soft you drive your car over distances of time. I doubt it includes how many cold starts or any variables like that, but it should be fairly accurate to a point. But as I have seen from my excessive hiway miles, i wouldnt advise anyone to follow it. go by mileage.

Vince · 02-14-2007, 01:23 PM

"Idiot lights" and "maintenance minders" are tailored to a specific "group" of owners. Most of the service intervals are targeted to intervals that reduce the cost of ownership, not necessarily what's in the best interest of a long lasting car.

phillipguru · 02-14-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

"Idiot lights" and "maintenance minders" are tailored to a specific "group" of owners. Most of the service intervals are targeted to intervals that reduce the cost of ownership, not necessarily what's in the best interest of a long lasting car.

True this is where Planned Obsolesence comes from.

gbae007 · 02-14-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

"Idiot lights" and "maintenance minders" are tailored to a specific "group" of owners. Most of the service intervals are targeted to intervals that reduce the cost of ownership, not necessarily what's in the best interest of a long lasting car.

That doesn't make any sense from Honda's perspective. Why would they want you to spend less money on maintence just so they can see more warranty claims? I think it is fine to stay on the Honda maintenance schedule, as long as you don't drive very hard.

With that said, I use synth oil but I will still change at 5K miles due to the fact that I redline my car often.

phillipguru · 02-14-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbae007

That doesn't make any sense from Honda's perspective. Why would they want you to spend less money on maintence just so they can see more warranty claims? I think it is fine to stay on the Honda maintenance schedule, as long as you don't drive very hard.

With that said, I use synth oil but I will still change at 5K miles due to the fact that I redline my car often.

every thing is the world is built to fail, this was not the case 50 years ago, but in the economy of today its needed to keep competition going. Hondas today will probably last a max of 10 years , maybe less. while that 88 accord with 300k still gos strong. planned obsolesence keeps buyers coming back to a quality product that lasts long enough for the consumer to deem quality. This is true of all consumer products. cars are made to perform better and fail by a certain age so we may purchase more of that product in our lifetime, thus adding to the economy.

This is not fake, this is not pseudo science, this is not a conspiracy, people this is how business works.

phillipguru · 02-14-2007, 01:46 PM

another example is airplanes with piston powered engines. they last through extreme abuse, probably about 10 times the abuse of a civics engine in the cars lifetime. These engines are mantained regularly. or off shore boat engines, some can go for 3-5 years with out an oil change on a 20 quart sump. these types of items are survival based. if they failed they died

in reality companies have the technology to build a 200hp car that gets 40mpg and would last for 50 years on 50 oil changes. But that wouldnt not be beneficial to the company, to the local state and federal government, the economy of the given country, or the GDP.

so keep buy buy buying

gbae007 · 02-14-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillipguru

every thing is the world is built to fail, this was not the case 50 years ago, but in the economy of today its needed to keep competition going. Hondas today will probably last a max of 10 years , maybe less. while that 88 accord with 300k still gos strong. planned obsolesence keeps buyers coming back to a quality product that lasts long enough for the consumer to deem quality. This is true of all consumer products. cars are made to perform better and fail by a certain age so we may purchase more of that product in our lifetime, thus adding to the economy.

This is not fake, this is not pseudo science, this is not a conspiracy, people this is how business works.

Wow, that's a tangent. But while we are on the subject, you theory doesn't explain why a car with a 50K mile warranty would have a maintenence minder that prescribes lengthy oil change intervals. To reiterate my earlier point, if Honda says it's OK to run 7K between oil changes, it's good enough for me. (But I still change at around 5K due to my spirited driving.)

trogers8 · 02-14-2007, 08:59 PM

I just do it when the wrench comes on. Why bother to argue with it? It's what Honda says..they built the damn engine they apparently know what's best for it. I'm sure the computer in the car can analyze the life of my oil much better than me. I mean..they advertise on the sticker of the car "No scheduled tune-ups till 100,000 miles"...or something to that tune. I don't see the point of taking extra care of an engine that was obviously designed to be low-cost and efficient.

02-11-2007, 08:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Paradox Lost Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bay Area Age: 25 Posts: 331 Rami iTrader: 0 / 0%	Maintenance minder and synthetic oil question... In the maintenance section of the manual, it says the following (the bold sections were done by me) "If the remaining engine oil life is 15 to 6 percent, you will see the engine oil life indicator every time you turn the ignition switch to the ON position. The maintenance minder indicator will also come on, and the maintenance item code(s) for other scheduled maintenance items needing service will be displayed next to the engine oil life indicator. The 15 and 10 percent indicator reminds you that the time is coming soon to take your vehicle in for the required service." So far, this makes perfect sense, but on the very next page, it says the following: "When the oil life is 15 to 1 percent, the maintenance minder indicator (wrench icon) comes on every time you turn the ignition switch to the ON position, then it goes out if you switch the information display. When you see this message, have the indicated maintenance performed by your dealer as soon as possible." So, I'm a little confused here. On the one hand, it says the oil needs to be changed soon when hitting 15 percent on the maintenance minder, but on the other, it means that it needs to be changed immediately. I'm starting to think that maybe it was a misprint, in that they meant to say that 15 to 6 percent means you will need an oil change soon, and 5 to 1 percent meaning the time is now. I only ask this because my maintenance indicator light came on about 200 miles ago, but I haven't had the time to really get the oil change done. I always prefer to get it done right on schedule, so I've been careful with the car lately, and have limited my driving. But if I understand the manual correctly, I still have a while to go before I need to have the oil changed? Also, my other question concerns the oil itself. I put in Mobile 1 Synthetic at my last oil change, but I'm wondering if that will even make a difference in terms of the maintenance minder. My understanding is that the maintenance minder doesn't actually 'know' the quality of your oil, as it simply uses a mathematical algorithm to compute the quality of your oil by taking into account a variety of factors. So by using this, it sort of assumes the quality of your oil based upon that algorithm. I ask this question because I had standard 5W-30 in my car before I put in the MS1 synthetic, and my oil life (according to the indicator) appeared to deplete at essentially the same rate, and it was my understanding that synthetic is generally good for a longer period of time than regular oil. My Si only has about 10,500 miles on it, so I'm due for my second oil change, though the interval seems to be at 5,500 miles (based upon my driving habits and conditions). So, my questions are basically: -Does the 15 percent indicator mean it's time for an oil change, or it will soon be time for an oil change? -If synthetic makes a difference in terms of the longevity of your oil life, would the maintenance minder be able to take into account that the oil I put in was synthetic? And a last question I didn't really bring up, but would be interested to know is: -How long can one safely go without an oil change? Thanks for reading all that, everyone.

02-11-2007, 08:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Civic4u Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Humble, TX Posts: 6,640 iTrader: 7 / 100%	Mine went: 15% 10% 5% 0% -25 -40 -167 I finally went to the dealership and get oil change. I'm no oil expert, I assume they did put new oil into the car. They said, "NO problems with your car. How do you like the new Civic?" Last edited by Civic4u; 02-12-2007 at 08:01 PM.

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02-12-2007, 07:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
mishima8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: PA Posts: 658 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I believe the rate it declines is pretty standard. It's not analysing the oil etc. You would be fine running it for a while without changing the oil. Me, I have to add a 1/2 a quart every other week or so.

02-13-2007, 04:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
phillipguru Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: rogersville, tn Age: 24 Posts: 364 iTrader: 1 / 100%	My oil life or service life meter hits 50-60% when I've gone about 5000 miles. I went 7000 before changing oil and I hit 30%. I drive 100% highway. Maybe once a month in the city, but its rare if i'm on a street that isnt 55mph

02-13-2007, 08:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
*AbsoluteGG* Camry Loverz Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Tampa, Florida Age: 18 Posts: 7,211 Steven iTrader: 0 / 0%	It is a little confusing to understand but I would change the oil between that time(15%-1%). BTW do you ever check your oil yourself? You should do that too since i doubt the meter is that 100% accurate. I've asked my Honda mechanic and he says just bring in the car when the wrench lights up or when it reaches to 0%.

02-14-2007, 11:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
warhead111 Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 97 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I honestly feel IMO that the maintenance minder pretty much decreases at the same rate whether I use synthetic oil or not. It seems like it reaches approximately 15% whenever I accumulate 5,000 miles from when it was reset. So a concern for me is what if I reset the MM when I've already driven the car for 4,000 miles? In this case I'll need to change the oil when I drive an additional 1,000 miles, but will the MM go from 100% to 15% within 1,000 miles? I guess I'm not willing to test this out, but maybe someone can? =)

02-14-2007, 11:45 AM	#9 (permalink)
gbae007 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Portland, Oregon Age: 27 Posts: 878 iTrader: 0 / 0%	I don't think the computer knows if you are using synth oil or not. It just goes based on mileage, idling time, temperature - all factors that break down the oil.

02-14-2007, 12:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
phillipguru Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: rogersville, tn Age: 24 Posts: 364 iTrader: 1 / 100%	people , the car doesnt have an oil analysis machine in the pan... synthetic or regular, it doesnt change anything on the maintenance minder. It takes load of engine, at rpm, tps and fuel load with engine temp. It creates a slow moving average to what amounts to how hard or soft you drive your car over distances of time. I doubt it includes how many cold starts or any variables like that, but it should be fairly accurate to a point. But as I have seen from my excessive hiway miles, i wouldnt advise anyone to follow it. go by mileage.

02-14-2007, 01:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
Vince Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Platte City, MO Age: 36 Posts: 901 Stephen "Vince" Carter iTrader: 0 / 0%	"Idiot lights" and "maintenance minders" are tailored to a specific "group" of owners. Most of the service intervals are targeted to intervals that reduce the cost of ownership, not necessarily what's in the best interest of a long lasting car.

02-14-2007, 01:46 PM	#16 (permalink)
phillipguru Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: rogersville, tn Age: 24 Posts: 364 iTrader: 1 / 100%	another example is airplanes with piston powered engines. they last through extreme abuse, probably about 10 times the abuse of a civics engine in the cars lifetime. These engines are mantained regularly. or off shore boat engines, some can go for 3-5 years with out an oil change on a 20 quart sump. these types of items are survival based. if they failed they died in reality companies have the technology to build a 200hp car that gets 40mpg and would last for 50 years on 50 oil changes. But that wouldnt not be beneficial to the company, to the local state and federal government, the economy of the given country, or the GDP. so keep buy buy buying

02-14-2007, 08:59 PM	#18 (permalink)
trogers8 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Biloxi, MS Age: 22 Posts: 1,625 Tim iTrader: 1 / 100%	I just do it when the wrench comes on. Why bother to argue with it? It's what Honda says..they built the damn engine they apparently know what's best for it. I'm sure the computer in the car can analyze the life of my oil much better than me. I mean..they advertise on the sticker of the car "No scheduled tune-ups till 100,000 miles"...or something to that tune. I don't see the point of taking extra care of an engine that was obviously designed to be low-cost and efficient.