Putting things in perspective for all you rattle-phobes...

[honda93]

Maybe this story will allay the fears of some of you rattle-phobes out there in 8thcivic land...


Yesterday, I along with some of the other autocross instructors from our region (NNJR-SCCA) had the opportunity to provide instruction and some driving talent for the NY/NJ chapter of the Viper Club of America's Northeast Autocross Challenge.

This was not the first time we've put on events for these guys, but yesterday, given the relatively small turnout, it allowed me to really study the cars as I sat in the drivers and passengers seat of these beasts.

And I came away with this conclusion... Those of you who have the occasional squeak or rattle should keep in mind that we own $20,000 (or less) automobiles. The level of fit and finish I saw amongst these vehicles was quite embarrassing when one considers the following...

* They all averaged in the $50,000 to $100,000 category (there were some GTS-ACR Coupes there)

* They were supposed to be America's first modern production "Supercar", eclipsing the performance of the Corvette

Yet, the interiors looked like they used the same plastic from the old K-cars!

Granted, all these little nuances disappeared the moment I stepped on the gas.

So, the moral of the story is this... Enjoy the new Civic. It will stand the test of time, as they all do, and try not to perseverate on every freaking little noise, OK? :)

If you really want to complain about something... Buy a domestic.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[jasongg06]

eh.. i'll keep complaining. Japanese imports generally have better, more reliable build, are more refined, etc. Its pretty sad that there are some people that need to turn their radio up to compensate for the sounds coming from the rattles. If people like us didn't complain so often to get little things like this fixed, do you think they'd still have a good product? The little things DO matter, and if we keep honda on their feet about these things, their cars will turn out better. No one is telling you to click on any of the rattle threads, if you don't want to hear about it then just don't click the link.

[8thgenuser]

I don't mind the complaints that people make. However, what I don't like are when people don't make an effort to resolve the problem other than to continue complaining about the problem.

If something is squeaking, then get off your @$$ and bring it to the dealer. You have a bumper-to-bumper warranty for a reason. Use it. If you haven't made an effort to get it fixed, then please don't keep bickering about it.

As Mario alluded to, even cars that cost as much as $100K or more have similar squeaks and use similar materials as our lowly Civics. So all he is doing was putting it into perspective and pointing out that every car has it's flaws.

The truth is, things are going to be squeaking and things are going to fall off due to normal wear and tear. When was the last time you had a car where NOTHING about it was wrong?

[honda93]

Originally Posted by jasongg06

eh.. i'll keep complaining. Japanese imports generally have better, more reliable build, are more refined, etc. Its pretty sad that there are some people that need to turn their radio up to compensate for the sounds coming from the rattles. If people like us didn't complain so often to get little things like this fixed, do you think they'd still have a good product? The little things DO matter, and if we keep honda on their feet about these things, their cars will turn out better. No one is telling you to click on any of the rattle threads, if you don't want to hear about it then just don't click the link.

While I'm not disagreeing with you, I hope you realize that the internet perpetuates little BS issues like this. My 1993 Civic had rattles and noises, but many of them "cured themselves" once all the plastic "found a home". I have confidence that the few noises on my 2006 Civic will work themselves out over time.

Additionally, I don't even open 90% of those threads... One only needs to look at the main forum page to get an idea of what's going on!

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[aki]

Well, just because more expensive cars rattle doesn't mean rattling is okay.

I guess for me it's hard to tolerate any rattling when my 02 civic didn't rattle as bad. Then again, it rattled horribly with loud bass, whereas this car doesn't. Hmm. Resisting urge to take to dealership because I do think it's too petty--only at low speeds and on inclines does my rear panel start creaking. I let my engine noise at 6K rpm overpower the sounds though =)

[jasongg06]

Originally Posted by honda93

While I'm not disagreeing with you, I hope you realize that the internet perpetuates little BS issues like this. My 1993 Civic had rattles and noises, but many of them "cured themselves" once all the plastic "found a home". I have confidence that the few noises on my 2006 Civic will work themselves out over time.

Additionally, I don't even open 90% of those threads... One only needs to look at the main forum page to get an idea of what's going on!

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

I know what you mean though, some of these are so insignificant, some people just like to make a big deal out of them. To be honest, i bet most of the people don't even notice rattles/problems until they read of them on these forums. Sometimes ignorance is really bliss, it even applies for me in this situation.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by jasongg06

I know what you mean though, some of these are so insignificant, some people just like to make a big deal out of them. To be honest, i bet most of the people don't even notice rattles/problems until they read of them on these forums. Sometimes ignorance is really bliss, it even applies for me in this situation.

Thanks for backing me up on this.

At least you understand what I meant when I said the internet perpetuates stuff like this...

Think of how many people own these cars already and do NOT visit internet sites like this. Or, imagine those who owned a Cavalier or an Elantra or some "lesser" subcompact. To them, the occasional squeak or buzz is just a normal part of car ownership.

I've also said in past posts that many of the noises being noticed are likely the result of the new FG/FA chassis being too quiet! The intake & exhaust noise, along with tire noise has been muffled so well that noises that used to be drowned out on the 88-91, 92-95, 96-00, and 01-05 Civics are now more noticeable and prevalent here.

Yes, I'll admit there are some common noises that I am sure will / have been addressed, but there are many more that are likely the result of people just listening a little too hard, either out of paranoia or whatever.

Yes, if I owned a $50,000 car it had better be quiet. If I owned a $200,000 car, the dealership better sense when I'm unhappy and call me before I call them.

But we own a $20,000 (or less) automobile. Let's not forget that.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[dobiejoe]

Just for perspective, My ZO6 rattles like a MOFO.

[taste]

All rattles and complaining aside, I agree with what you all have been debating. I'm a little disappointed though in the fit and finish of my LX coupe.

I was going "Honda" so maybe my expectations were a little too high. However, what might have put them there was my 04 SI, which seemed to be put together tighter than my 06.

[Sheldo1]

In my mind, rattles/noises are a sign of poor quality. If this wasn't the case, I don't think the manufacturers would fix them under warranty.

Yes, the materials on a $20k car won't match a $50k car. That's obvious. Hoewver, a rattle is usually caused by something that isn't screwed together properly, or worse yet, a poor design. If I am paying money for a car, I at least expect it is put together correctly.

Several rattles listed on this board have turned out to be real problems. One is the motor mount failure that many of us have had. This one sounded like a dash rattle but turned out to be something more serious. Another problem is the noise from faulty struts. The 1500rpm droning noise turned out to be a problem with the engine belt. A fix has recently been announced no doubt because enough people complained. All of these are quality problems in my opinion and should be addressed.

Take it easy on guys who are trying to find out about noises in their cars. If they can hear something that doesn't sound right, they should ask about it. That's what these forums are all about.

[fiji06si13]

Cars are many pieces put to gether and things are going to flex. I hate to say this even if you own a Lexus they will rattle. I have one customer that has come back so many times a Rep has gotten invlolved. Rattles and Creeks are least of my worries. I have excepted that there will always be a rattle or a creek. If you fix one three more will show up. That I can promise.

[jasongg06]

Originally Posted by Sheldo1

In my mind, rattles/noises are a sign of poor quality. If this wasn't the case, I don't think the manufacturers would fix them under warranty.

Yes, the materials on a $20k car won't match a $50k car. That's obvious. Hoewver, a rattle is usually caused by something that isn't screwed together properly, or worse yet, a poor design. If I am paying money for a car, I at least expect it is put together correctly.

Several rattles listed on this board have turned out to be real problems. One is the motor mount failure that many of us have had. This one sounded like a dash rattle but turned out to be something more serious. Another problem is the noise from faulty struts. The 1500rpm droning noise turned out to be a problem with the engine belt. A fix has recently been announced no doubt because enough people complained. All of these are quality problems in my opinion and should be addressed.

Take it easy on guys who are trying to find out about noises in their cars. If they can hear something that doesn't sound right, they should ask about it. That's what these forums are all about.

Also well put

[honda93]

Originally Posted by Sheldo1

Several rattles listed on this board have turned out to be real problems.

I'm not denying this...

One subcompact car that has gotten many rave reviews over the years for its interior materials, quality, and workmanship has been the VW Golf / Jetta models (and many will tell you the rest of the car is less than stellar).

Well, I read recently that in order to trim costs, VW is going to phase out the soft touch and high grade plastics in favor of harder, lower-cost materials. This relates to our Civic's in the following manner... Despite all the standard amenities, size increases, and safety equipment, the 2006+ Civic's still hover in the 2600-2700 lb. range. Compare this to the weights of many new cars today and you'll see that interior plastic is where Honda's bean-counters decided to "trim the fat".

I'll gladly take this tradeoff knowing that my new R18 i-VTEC and the accompanying redesigned manual transmission easily see 200k miles, even under National-level SCCA autocross use like it's seen the last 12 months...

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[taste]

Originally Posted by honda93

I'll gladly take this tradeoff knowing that my new R18 i-VTEC and the accompanying redesigned manual transmission easily see 200k miles, even under National-level SCCA autocross use like it's seen the last 12 months...

Good call there. That's what I'm hoping for.

I almost feel kinda guilty beating the sh** out of my R18 and still getting 34-36 MPG's.

[Sheldo1]

Originally Posted by honda93

I'm not denying this...

I'll gladly take this tradeoff knowing that my new R18 i-VTEC and the accompanying redesigned manual transmission easily see 200k miles, even under National-level SCCA autocross use like it's seen the last 12 months...

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

That's assuming that the same cost cutting isn't being done to the engine/transmission.

[honda93]

Originally Posted by Sheldo1

That's assuming that the same cost cutting isn't being done to the engine/transmission.

http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2013?m...41013&mime=asc

The R18 stuff is on pages 3 and 4 and beyond. The Si and Hybrid take up pages 1 and 2.

I highly doubt Honda MOTOR Company would risk their one true, solid reputation like that, and after you read through the link I provided, I think you'll agree.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

[Sheldo1]

Originally Posted by honda93

http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2013?m...41013&mime=asc

The R18 stuff is on pages 3 and 4 and beyond. The Si and Hybrid take up pages 1 and 2.

I highly doubt Honda MOTOR Company would risk their one true, solid reputation like that, and after you read through the link I provided, I think you'll agree.

Anthony "Mario" Crea
NNJR-SCCA

I know Honda has a good reputation but my first EX was replaced by Honda due to an engine problem that couldn't be fixed. Cost cutting?

[jasongg06]

Originally Posted by Sheldo1

I know Honda has a good reputation but my first EX was replaced by Honda due to an engine problem that couldn't be fixed. Cost cutting?

Highly unlikely, Honda MOTOR was built on engines. Thats their strong point, why would they cut costs there?

[mort]

I don't care about squeaks and rattles. If I did I would have bought a Lexus or some other "luxury" car. A civic is a civic. Especially if you want to go fast you can't expect your car to be like floating on a cloud. I spent a whole lot of time gutting my 99 coupe just to lose like 15 extra pounds of tar. I stripped it to the metal and color matched it etc.. If you try scraping all the tar from your floorboards and the car is new you are not going to have a fun time hehe.. Fortune cookie say "Wait a couple years till the tar hardens and it will break off in big chunks like peanut brittle." Anyway I guess the point of my post is.. make your car lighter. It will be louder but faster.

[jasongg06]

Originally Posted by mort

I don't care about squeaks and rattles. If I did I would have bought a Lexus or some other "luxury" car. A civic is a civic. Especially if you want to go fast you can't expect your car to be like floating on a cloud. I spent a whole lot of time gutting my 99 coupe just to lose like 15 extra pounds of tar. I stripped it to the metal and color matched it etc.. If you try scraping all the tar from your floorboards and the car is new you are not going to have a fun time hehe.. Fortune cookie say "Wait a couple years till the tar hardens and it will break off in big chunks like peanut brittle." Anyway I guess the point of my post is.. make your car lighter. It will be louder but faster.

heh most people actually try to do the opposite. They tear their car apart n deaden everything so there's less road noise. Who cars if theres an extra few lb's in the car, it's as quiet as a lexus!