How to Introduce Yourself to Your New Civic

[KingMarineM16a4]

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[Celcius]

Interesting read. Near the bottom, are you saying you changed your oil 4 times by the time you hit 2000 miles..?

[KingMarineM16a4]

Originally Posted by Celcius

Interesting read. Near the bottom, are you saying you changed your oil 4 times by the time you hit 2000 miles..?

Yes. I would, to my own car. It's not needed but I don't like the idea of small metal chips wondering around in my engine.

[achapman]

You should not be holding the car at a certain rpm. You are not introducing ANY load on the motor becuase you aren't moving and you don't have wind resistance. Dynos simulate resistance, the reving the motor in neutral does nothing except harm the motor.

The rest I agree, except you should change the oil at 20 miles.

You can seat the piston rings without going above 65 MPH. Run through each gear and hit redline. Then engine break your way down and do the same thing.

[reckywind]

Uhmm, correct me if im woring but changin the oil that eraly would affect your engine break-in period pretty bad. My friend works at the DB Honda and he's the cheif mechanic or whatever they them these days and he specifically told me it was a very, very bad idea to change ioil to syntheitc right away becuase of brake oil in our engine valves or something like that... Ill ask him again. But yeah he told me especially for the K20's if you change oil that early and switch to pure synth, your mielage will drop dramatically for a new car and you won't get the proper compression ratio your engine is designed for.

[illusionstwice]

Chief Mechanic??? hmm..I am taking a stab u meant Shop Forman?

[Celcius]

I foresee an interesting debate in the near future...

I think we can all agree on the small metal bits thing. About the redlining a couple times to get the rings seated... should we only do this once? Most of the break-in threads suggest staying away from ivtec/redline during the first 500-600 miles.

[achapman]

They say that becuase thats what the manual suggests. However the manual suggests that so you don't do burnouts out of the dealer parking lot after picking up the car, or try to race everyone and get in a wreck then try to sue the dealer.

You should basically run the piss out of the car for the 1st 20 miles. You should not even start the car until you are ready to drive 20 hard miles. YOU MUST LET THE ENGINE WARM UP ALL THE WAY. This means so the timp gauge is in the middle! What you are doing is seating the piston rings so they seal better and hold compression (obviously). Then change the oil. I then vary the rpms until 150 miles and change the oil again. Same thing again at 600 miles and change the oil. Then same thing util 1500 miles then change to Full syn.

Again this is my method and of course this topic is highly debatable with everyones biased opinions.

[HondaScott]

Well, this is going to seem like a flame, but I am tired of the blind leading the blind.

These are KingMarineM16a4's OPINIONS, and they happen to completely contradict my opinions.

#1 revving an engine with no load is asking for trouble
#2 changing your oil right away and too often gets rid of too much friction, which does not allow your engine to properly "wear in."
#3 you should NOT hold the engine at a specific rpm on purpose

I would like to see some proof that what I am saying is wrong, and what KingMarineM16a4 has said is correct, because his method seems so arbitrary and ridiculous.

[achapman]

I agree with you on holding the engine at a certain RPM and not underload is extremely bad for the motor.. When you just rev the motor, the rings are just going along for the ride. A small portion of the ring is actually hitting the cylinder wall. Then the parts that do hit the wall wear down the roughness of the honing pattern. You want the entire ring to do this, not just parts.

Cooldown is only needed on the Dyno, not on the street due to the amount of air entering the radiator.

[dnbsi]

seems a bit OCD. is there really gonna be a difference between a car who does what the OP states, and one who turns the AC and radio on for the first drive?

[KingMarineM16a4]

Originally Posted by dnbsi

seems a bit OCD. is there really gonna be a difference between a car who does what the OP states, and one who turns the AC and radio on for the first drive?

I said when you turn on the car for the first 5 minutes. The A/C is est. to take up 5-10 hp. That's almost 5% of the engines power output. Get the engine used to idling under no loads before adding loads. Start lifting 20 lbs before you lift 30 lbs.

[dnbsi]

Originally Posted by KingMarineM16a4

I said when you turn on the car for the first 5 minutes. The A/C is est. to take up 5-10 hp. That's almost 5% of the engines power output. Get the engine used to idling under no loads before adding loads. Start lifting 20 lbs before you lift 30 lbs.

right, in theory it makes sense. but is there any proof it makes a difference in the end?

[achapman]

Well from what I have described as how I break a motor in, yes I have torn down two race bikes. Both mine, and one was broken in the way I do, and the other was broken in by the book. The one broken in by the book produced less power and clearly the rings had not set in completely like the other. You could see the discoloration on the top of the pistons.

Granted I didn't have a control subject, but that is as best I can do.

[KingMarineM16a4]

Originally Posted by dnbsi

right, in theory it makes sense. but is there any proof it makes a difference in the end?

There is no proof. It is all based on theory. But if it makes sense, it makes sense.

Like we say at LTI, "Don't fight the theory." A lot of cars is theory, and if you fight it all day you'll never get anything accomplished.

[truflip]

what about this? I did this for my break in...

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[HondaScott]

Sounds pretty good. I don't think anybody who did an easy break in need worry though. Your car has hit the dyno pretty hard before it rolled out of the factory.

[TommyD]

Originally Posted by KingMarineM16a4

Yes. I would, to my own car. It's not needed but I don't like the idea of small metal chips wondering around in my engine.

That is why you have an oil filter, to filter those particles. Also, even if you change it out, more of those particles are going to show up the next day anyway, there is nothing you can do about it, and it's normal. All you are doing is wasting time and money doing that as your engine isn't going to be any better off by doing it. Unless you are pulling a sample out of it and sending it to a lab, like Blackstone Labs, you are just exercising in futility. This is exactly why Honda tells you to change the oil when they do. I also know a well known race mechanic that specializes in Honda motorcycle engines, and mostly 4 stroke inline 4's just like the ones in these Civics. I asked him the same question before about changing the oil early and he said it's a waste of $ as more particles will just show up tomorrow. It's not 1955.

[NOVAblackSiSedan]

Why is everyone so gung ho to completely disregard dealer recommended break in instructions? Is there any evidence in the original post that indicates this process actually works, aside from the fact that this information also exists on some other websites? The engine has already been "introduced to vtec" back at the factory, no? What the hell is this guy talking about

[bizzybearfigiblue]

sorry for the long post...

Originally Posted by KingMarineM16a4

I said when you turn on the car for the first 5 minutes. The A/C is est. to take up 5-10 hp. That's almost 5% of the engines power output. Get the engine used to idling under no loads before adding loads. Start lifting 20 lbs before you lift 30 lbs.

we actually dyno'd a car the other day with the A/C on and it actually doesn't take that much hp away from the engine... in fact the peak hp was the same... the only noticeable difference was the peak tq was down about 10ft lbs....


now it's time to speak on the engine break-in theory... idk what the book says seeing as i never read it b4... all i've done was go off of experience... and that experience has lead me to believe that a hard break-in always works better... for example... i actually didn't drive my car hard, never touching 4k rpms for the first 80 miles... after that i hit the limiter shift, limiter shift, limiter shift... u get the idea...

and going by my dyno numbers compared to other stock Si numbers i would say the way i broke it in works best... my very first dyno was 3000 miles after i bought the car... first run was 190.4hp/145.x tq... my best was with my filter off and a 5-10 min cool down... which yielded 199.0hp/151tq... now i didn't believe it when i saw it... but then two other Si's dyno'd right after me... one of them w/mods did 200hp and the other w/more mods did 201hp... everyone was like WTF did i do to make my car have such high hp compared to the others... i said i just... then i explained what i did...

these numbers were always debated b/c let's face it no other stock Si dyno'd that much b4... now let's FF>> to a few months ago... over one year and 19k miles later since my first dyno... put the car on the dyno @ P2R shop... the numbers again said 190.9hp/144.4tq this is still completely stock now...

like 2 days l8r we had a Si dyno day (with very similar HOT S.FL weather) and i think the other stock Si's dyno'd 185hp/135tq and a few Si's w/mods were in the range of about 194hp-204hp... now their mods range from the lowest one with I/IMG/E to I/IMG/H/E/Reflash... i added the P2R spacer and i got 195.4hp/146tq... these are all SAE corrected numbers... my non corrected number was like 206hp+...

maybe i have freak if you believe in that stuff or maybe the way i broke it in worked better for my engine... idk... it's ultimately up to you on how u prefer ur engine to perform...

side note... all my dyno's showed an A/F mixture of about 10.5-11 while in so i know with proper tuning my car will see over 200hp w/o any serious mods...