P2R TB Spacer Dyno

[Redleg06Si]

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

it is 3/4" thick + 1/8" x 2 (2 TBG) = about 1" total



the rpms was read off of the PS replacement pulley instead of the underdrie pulley... resulting in a difference in rpms of about 400-500... the car was taken to the limiter...

the dip is noticeable in the torque it's not a str8 drop but it does go low then it shoots up...

dont think you need 2 thermal gaskets...on thermal and one stock should be fine

[sickyute]

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

b/c we were kinda in a rush and instead of figuring out a way to get to the crank pully we figured to just take it off of the PS pully...

the hp numbers will be the same no matter where we take it from... the tq numbers MIGHT be off (+/-) a little but not by much...

pulleys?
if i'm not mistaken, readings on the fg2 are taken from the white wire loom to the right of the valve cover

[Zeuceone]

interesting.

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by Shark Tek

I really don't understand how this can add some power, there is no logic to it.

At the end the "bottleneck" still there you just add more space between the IM and the throttle nothing more or less.

A colder TB because of the gaskets (IM or TB gaskets) isn't the reason either. The air that comes from the intake moves so fast there is no time for heat exchange.

Those extra ponies are due to glitches between runs. That is the reason of why I do at least 4 runs before and after the mod to do an average.

Everyone here that has visited a dyno knows that all the runs give different readings. I still skeptical about this mode there is no reason for improve power there is no extra flow, its impossible.

Sorry to jack the post but you can't cover the sky with the hand.

i'll try and explain to u w/o offending ur intelligence...

more air capacity in the intake manifold creates more power... y do u think people always want a PORTED & polished manifold it's to create more space inside the manifold... resulting in more hp...

and if u seriously think that b/c the air is flowing fast that it can't change the temps then i have no comment to leave...

also we did THREE base runs first all of them read 190.x... they were all within 1hp of each other... if ur car isn't stock then they might read different but considering my car is stock and the runs were within minutes of each other i don't see how the numbers would be different...

after the first two runs w/the TB spacer the runs read 192.x (both of them) but after the ECU adjusted for the added air the hp went up consistently to 195.x on the following runs

just thought that would help considering some people might have thought these numbers were tampered with or adjusted...

Originally Posted by sickyute

pulleys?
if i'm not mistaken, readings on the fg2 are taken from the white wire loom to the right of the valve cover

some dyno's read from the pulses in the wires some read from the physical pulley's... this one is laser read from the desired pully....

[caveman74]

Originally Posted by Shark Tek

I really don't understand how this can add some power, there is no logic to it.

At the end the "bottleneck" still there you just add more space between the IM and the throttle nothing more or less.

A colder TB because of the gaskets (IM or TB gaskets) isn't the reason either. The air that comes from the intake moves so fast there is no time for heat exchange.

Those extra ponies are due to glitches between runs. That is the reason of why I do at least 4 runs before and after the mod to do an average.

Everyone here that has visited a dyno knows that all the runs give different readings. I still skeptical about this mode there is no reason for improve power there is no extra flow, its impossible.

Sorry to jack the post but you can't cover the sky with the hand.

It works, I asked about this last year and no one had come out with it yet.
The Helix TB insert worked verywell with the Accord, Thats where I heard from it.

[CorSport]

Air intake temps are lower because the materials touching each other are not as hot. It absolutely 110% has an effect on temperature regardless of air velocity. (for example: air going through a tunnel that has a hotter surface temp then the other tunnel will be hotter when exiting, period)

Tai
Corsport

[trickyazn]

weird how you were in a rush but was able to run multiple runs.. and from your post.. as in a lot of runs.

why not just do it right by using the right pulley so you can avoid all this disagreement. seriously your posting this on the forum. if you want to prove this actually works then get the right pulley.

[CaliGuy]

Originally Posted by trickyazn

weird how you were in a rush but was able to run multiple runs.. and from your post.. as in a lot of runs.

why not just do it right by using the right pulley so you can avoid all this disagreement. seriously your posting this on the forum. if you want to prove this actually works then get the right pulley.

What are you saying? That the dyno is BS?

[alexv305]

Well i have the TB spacer on order along with 2 heatshield gaskets... I dont know anyone around here who has access to a dyno but i WILL let you know if i feel a difference in power

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by trickyazn

weird how you were in a rush but was able to run multiple runs.. and from your post.. as in a lot of runs.

why not just do it right by using the right pulley so you can avoid all this disagreement. seriously your posting this on the forum. if you want to prove this actually works then get the right pulley.

u misunderstood we were in a rush to get it set up on the dyno... and yes i was supposed to go back to work but seeing as the electricity cut off do to a mini hurricane we had down here... it caused me to take a bit longer... that's when i decided to just call in and tell them i'm not coming in...

ur the only one on here making a big deal about the pulley, i said earlier that the rpms being read don't really mean much other than ur satisfaction... u will still get an accurate hp reading no matter where u take the reading...

i'm not here trying to prove anything to anyone i was just showing my results after installing the TB spacer it's ultimately up to u to buy it or not... (I personally don't care)...

btw next time u look in ur engine bay let me know an easy way to get to the crank pulley and we'll put it there so u can have ur accurate rpm reading...

[Shark Tek]

Example: If the diameter of the intake manifold inlet is 2.25in, throttle body diameter is 2.25inches too. How a spacer that I believe is bigger than that will add more air volume if the two ends of that spacer still having a bottle neck of 2.25in.

It doesn't make sense. The air flow its the same as stock there is no possible way of having more, unless that the intake manifold inlet diameter and throttle body are bored.

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

more air capacity in the intake manifold creates more power... y do u think people always want a PORTED & polished manifold it's to create more space inside the manifold... resulting in more hp...

Right so you mean that 5-7 cubic inches more will increase all that torque and HP, come on .....
Porting & Polishing is to increase the airflow CFMs that the engine is sucking, Im sorry but this addon doesn't do that, you dont need to be an engineer or scientist to be aware of it is as simple as 2+2.

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

and if u seriously think that b/c the air is flowing fast that it can't change the temps then i have no comment to leave...

Isn't only the speed that the air is traveling, is the volume of it. If the runners of the intake manifolds where something like 1-5cm in diameter then I will take that comment as valid, but in reality they're very thick. Get a picture of an intercooler they can exchange temperatures not only for their conductivity properties, also the internal ducts are very thin. If you want I can explain it with equation I just have to find my Thermodynamics notebook.

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

also we did THREE base runs first all of them read 190.x... they were all within 1hp of each other... if ur car isn't stock then they might read different but considering my car is stock and the runs were within minutes of each other i don't see how the numbers would be different...

after the first two runs w/the TB spacer the runs read 192.x (both of them) but after the ECU adjusted for the added air the hp went up consistently to 195.x on the following runs

just thought that would help considering some people might have thought these numbers were tampered with or adjusted...

No matter what type of dyno you use is very difficult to achieve the exact results two times, most of the runs can have differences very noticeable. Even in stock cars.


Conclusion
By reading your explanation I can conclude that adding another extension to my garden hose I will have more water volume coming out the hose?
Also another thing, be aware that using this spacer for installing a nitrous nozzle is another big error. If someone do it , the nitrous mixture will not get evenly on all the cylinders. That is the reason of the warning in the instructions that say that the nozzle must be almost one feet away from the throttle body

[CaliGuy]

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

u misunderstood we were in a rush to get it set up on the dyno... and yes i was supposed to go back to work but seeing as the electricity cut off do to a mini hurricane we had down here... it caused me to take a bit longer... that's when i decided to just call in and tell them i'm not coming in...

ur the only one on here making a big deal about the pulley, i said earlier that the rpms being read don't really mean much other than ur satisfaction... u will still get an accurate hp reading no matter where u take the reading...

i'm not here trying to prove anything to anyone i was just showing my results after installing the TB spacer it's ultimately up to u to buy it or not... (I personally don't care)...

btw next time u look in ur engine bay let me know an easy way to get to the crank pulley and we'll put it there so u can have ur accurate rpm reading...

Word. When I got my dyno done the guy had a ***** of a time getting to the crank pulley!

I mean, come on, this part costs $70, not $700. Sh!t I piss $70...

[ameuba10]

do they make this for an AT R18?

[CaliGuy]

Originally Posted by Shark Tek

Example: If the diameter of the intake manifold inlet is 2.25in, throttle body diameter is 2.25inches too. How a spacer that I believe is bigger than that will add more air volume if the two ends of that spacer still having a bottle neck of 2.25in.

It doesn't make sense. The air flow its the same as stock there is no possible way of having more, unless that the intake manifold inlet diameter and throttle body are bored.





Right so you mean that 5-7 cubic inches more will increase all that torque and HP, come on .....
Porting & Polishing is to increase the airflow CFMs that the engine is sucking, Im sorry but this addon doesn't do that, you dont need to be an engineer or scientist to be aware of it is as simple as 2+2.


Isn't only the speed that the air is traveling, is the volume of it. If the runners of the intake manifolds where something like 1-5cm in diameter then I will take that comment as valid, but in reality they're very thick. Get a picture of an intercooler they can exchange temperatures not only for their conductivity properties, also the internal ducts are very thin. If you want I can explain it with equation I just have to find my Thermodynamics notebook.






No matter what type of dyno you use is very difficult to achieve the exact results two times, most of the runs can have differences very noticeable. Even in stock cars.


Conclusion
By reading your explanation I can conclude that adding another extension to my garden hose I will have more water?
Also another thing, be aware that using this spacer for installing a nitrous nozzle is another big error. If someone do it , the nitrous mixture will not get evenly on all the cylinders. That is the reason of the warning in the instructions that say that the nozzle must be almost one feet away from the throttle body

Yes.

[CaliGuy]

Originally Posted by ameuba10

do they make this for an AT R18?

No, and why ask 2x (you asked in another thread)? Did you think within 1 hour they would have fabricated and started manufacturing one?

[bizzybearfigiblue]

Originally Posted by Shark Tek

Example: If the diameter of the intake manifold inlet is 2.25in, throttle body diameter is 2.25inches too. How a spacer that I believe is bigger than that will add more air volume if the two ends of that spacer still having a bottle neck of 2.25in.

It doesn't make sense. The air flow its the same as stock there is no possible way of having more, unless that the intake manifold inlet diameter and throttle body are bored.

answered that already... I'm done with this one...

Originally Posted by Shark Tek

Right so you mean that 5-7 cubic inches more will increase all that torque and HP, come on .....
Porting & Polishing is to increase the airflow CFMs that the engine is sucking, Im sorry but this addon doesn't do that, you dont need to be an engineer or scientist to be aware of it is as simple as 2+2.

i didn't measure how much it will increase but yeah pretty much that's what i'm saying... u don't need a degree or anything like that, u don't even have to go to school to have common sense....

Originally Posted by Shark Tek

Isn't only the speed that the air is traveling, is the volume of it. If the runners of the intake manifolds where something like 1-5cm in diameter then I will take that comment as valid, but in reality they're very thick. Get a picture of an intercooler they can exchange temperatures not only for their conductivity properties, also the internal ducts are very thin. If you want I can explain it with equation I just have to find my Thermodynamics notebook.

this little section was pointless with that big word at teh end...

Originally Posted by Shark Tek

No matter what type of dyno you use is very difficult to achieve the exact results two times, most of the runs can have differences very noticeable. Even in stock cars.

at least u noted that it's very difficult and not impossible....

Originally Posted by Shark Tek

Conclusion
By reading your explanation I can conclude that adding another extension to my garden hose I will have more water volume coming out the hose?
Also another thing, be aware that using this spacer for installing a nitrous nozzle is another big error. If someone do it , the nitrous mixture will not get evenly on all the cylinders. That is the reason of the warning in the instructions that say that the nozzle must be almost one feet away from the throttle body

the nitrous thing i have nothing to say seeing as i'm N/A... (stock actually)...

but the part on the garden hose i want u to try at home... take a hose let's say 25' hose (A) and 50' (B).... obviously B is longer (no ****) than A... but if u take the two of them put them together and turn on the water what happens?? water comes out... now if u take those hoses and shut the water off but keep one end closed what happens??? nothing.... now here's the fun part get a bucket and fill that bucket with the remaining water in the hose... then repeat this process with just the 25' hose... then post up ur results.... don't forget to take pix of this seeing as some people don't believe anything w/o pix....

[CaliGuy]

Originally Posted by bizzybearfigiblue

answered that already... I'm done with this one...



i didn't measure how much it will increase but yeah pretty much that's what i'm saying... u don't need a degree or anything like that, u don't even have to go to school to have common sense....

is bigger than that will add more air volume if the two ends of that spacer still having a bottle neck of 2.25in.

It doesn't make sense. The air flow its the same as stock there is no possible way of having more, unless that the intake manifold inlet diameter and throttle body are bored.

answered that already... I'm done with this one...




this little section was pointless with that big word at teh end...




at least u noted that it's very difficult and not impossible....


the nitrous thing i have nothing to say seeing as i'm N/A... (stock actually)...

but the part on the garden hose i want u to try at home... take a hose let's say 25' hose (A) and 50' (B).... obviously B is longer (no ****) than A... but if u take the two of them put them together and turn on the water what happens?? water comes out... now if u take those hoses and shut the water off but keep one end closed what happens??? nothing.... now here's the fun part get a bucket and fill that bucket with the remaining water in the hose... then repeat this process with just the 25' hose... then post up ur results.... don't forget to take pix of this seeing as some people don't believe anything w/o pix....[/QUOTE]

[Shark Tek]

Get ready to get Owned both of you.

By following your idea I can say that I can fill up a bucket of water more quickly with a hose of 30 feet that one of 10 feet. Assuming that the volume rate are the same.



There is nothing more to discuss here.


Nice try.

[CaliGuy]

Yep, nothing more. I spent $70 for ~5 whp...I win.

[Shark Tek]

Time will show the truth. Lets just wait for more pre/post dynos from other people.