Hondata Flashpro Chat thread

[galaxygrey13]

I wouldnt trade in my car. Every other car wastes even more gas haha. My mom and stepdad traded in their 1996 4runner for a brand new Yaris. I think they came up. not sure how much they paid for it though.

[JEA86]

are you guys getting worse milage with the Flashpro?

[ChinoiSI]

everyone complaining about gas, lol I haven't noticed anything different, I guess its because I drive a lil more conservative than most people, even with my FP.

[JEA86]

Originally Posted by ChinoiSI

everyone complaining about gas, lol I haven't noticed anything different, I guess its because I drive a lil more conservative than most people, even with my FP.

i noticed my needle dropped ALOT faster but i still had 3 gallons left in the tank... I still do mine the old fashon way LOL by milage

[VTXFrank]

Cliff’s Notes:

Originally Posted by VitViper

Blah….blah….blah

You are wrong. At least research so that when you DO talk out your ass, you at least seem somewhat informed.

Long, nicer version:

Originally Posted by VitViper

This has absolutely no bearing on the flash pro.

I'm not going to argue with you. But unless Hondata comes in here and says they've completely mitigated the risk using this USB cable, I guarantee you you're wrong.

Originally Posted by VitViper

Wait what? The FPro is in a case and you're not touching any electronics. Unless you're rubbing your hand on a head of hair and then touching the contacts on the OBD2 connector you're not going to damage it.

Rubbing your hand through your hair isn’t going to build up static electricity. So it's pretty evident you don’t understand the actual mechanics behind ESD. And you touch the “electronics” every single time you handle the USB cable’s male end. Where, exactly, do you think that cable leads to when plugged in and how, exactly, does electricity and data transmittal work since you don’t believe ESD can damage USB devices?

Originally Posted by VitViper

USB devices are HOT SWAPPABLE. You will not kill ANY usb device by just unplugging it. What happened is your computer's OS was in the middle of a write operation to the flash drive and someone pulled the thing out corrupting the file system so it becomes unrecognizable by the OS.

And you know the very SECOND an OS has stopped addressing a given device? Really?

You could be charged with static electricity when you grab the plastic or rubber protective cover of a given device. When you pull the device out, the static electricity can make the jump to the metal part of the male end that just came out of the computer.

While removing an external HDD, without stopping it in the OS, typically won't hurt it, the same CANNOT be said for ANY flash based electronic product. Even though you may not experience a complete material failure, and your FP not work, over time, the oscillator that controls the memory addressing and data placement, as well as the traces upon which the paths are made, can be damaged. Sometimes that damage means it will never work again. Sometimes, it means it’s damaged just barely enough so that the memory isn’t completely addressable, but the rest is. Depending on the software being run, that might make the component unusable. And then there’s the slow degradation damage. Over time, with enough repeated instances, you will eventually render the product, FP in this case, unusable. Just like a light bulb’s filament eventually getting worn out till it breaks.

ESD from static electricity may never cause your FP to give up the blue ghost. It might just work forever. But what if you live in Arizona, or some other arid environment, and it’s the middle of winter and your FP just stops working one day? Well, now you’ll know why.

It’s possible that you will never have an issue from ESD even though you plug and unplug a device ten times a day. With today’s technology and the newish ESD standards, which not everyone is required to follow, the likelihood of damaging your FP is probably quite small. But remember, electronic devices are getting smaller and smaller. The IC on this FP is probably pretty new tech. The memory might be an older type, but still, the newer the technology, the smaller the fab processes for it. The smaller the process and the lower the operating voltage of a given product, like the oscillator on memory sticks, the MORE likely it is to be damaged by ESD. Most IC’s are only capable of 5000v HBM before the metal oxides are damaged. ESD’s from human’s to metal can be 20,000-25,000 volts. You can begin to “feel” an ESD event on your fingertip at 3,000 volts just to give you some perspective.

Originally Posted by VitViper

Read response to #1.

Seriously, do some research before you give such all encompassing “advice” like you have here. Google is pretty good and so is Bing. I’m not aware of any manufacturer of memory chips who don’t include warnings about ESD with their products or on their websites. But just to get you started:

Kingston says otherwise and is one of the oldest and most well known memory suppliers out there.

PC World referring to overall computing habits and ESD considerations.

Micro hard drives can be affected by it. Hitachi is one of the leading HDD makers in the world.

A British based Blog about computing and good habits. A veritable gold mine of information.

Originally Posted by VitViper

All version's of USB are hot swappable. That's the point of USB.. "plug'n'play". The Safely Remove Hardware Windows implemented for situations such as I described later that involve file systems on USB devices.

You just love using the word hot-swappable huh? But it doesn't make one whit of difference if you aren't following basic safety guidelines. Did you know that the Antec Sonata case, just one out of hundred's, if not thousands of computer cases out there, has a serious issue with shorting on the front two USB ports due to a lack of proper grounding? The Sonata case has been used by so many white-box computer manufacturer's as to be a boring ass case now. Even if it is one of my favorites.

It's obvious you're smarter than I am when it comes to ECU tuning. For info about that, I will defer to your knowledge. You should learn when to do the same when your knowledge is lacking and not just make **** up because that's the easiest solution for you.

[JEA86]

so i tried the Skunk 2 Map on my car and it literally FELL ON ITS FACE at 4200 RPM all the way to 6K and then it picked up again, came back home after datalogging it and my Air Fuels DROPPED low low so needless to say not gonna run that one again

[xthangmapx]

Originally Posted by JEA86

so i tried the Skunk 2 Map on my car and it literally FELL ON ITS FACE at 4200 RPM all the way to 6K and then it picked up again, came back home after datalogging it and my Air Fuels DROPPED low low so needless to say not gonna run that one again

so when it hit vtec your car felt like crap?

[02civic_rida]

I'm thinking about flashin the car back to stock for the trip to the dragon, hoping it will help with millage. then I can put the other flash back on the car when i'm up there. what do you guys think?

[bigborian]

Originally Posted by JEA86

so i tried the Skunk 2 Map on my car and it literally FELL ON ITS FACE at 4200 RPM all the way to 6K and then it picked up again, came back home after datalogging it and my Air Fuels DROPPED low low so needless to say not gonna run that one again

Yea I had the same experience in mine. It only ran Strong in Vegas but down at sea level it runs like ****. Right now I got mine on the Injen CAI with cyl 2 and 3 richened up slightly and everything from 4000-8500 rpms dropped 5% fuel and runs REALLY strong. I datalogged and at WOT my AFR is 12.5-13.0 that's exactly what i wanted.

[bigborian]

Originally Posted by 02civic_rida

I'm thinking about flashin the car back to stock for the trip to the dragon, hoping it will help with millage. then I can put the other flash back on the car when i'm up there. what do you guys think?

That sounds like a good idea OR you could flash it to the stock MAP under the map settings and set everything from 2000-4000 and pull 5% fuel and you might get even better gas mileage. but watch out for knock

[02civic_rida]

nah i don't wanna fuk with any of that crap lol... knock scares the **** outa me but ya i think stock map will work

[02civicsi]

Have you done any datalogs yet Nick?

[maxxnitro88]

so now that i have got my injen sri base map in a safe operating mode, how do i squeeze some more juice out of this bag of grapes?

[bigborian]

Originally Posted by maxxnitro88

so now that i have got my injen sri base map in a safe operating mode, how do i squeeze some more juice out of this bag of grapes?

Run a few datalogs and see what your AFR are at WOT try to get them around 12.5-13.0. A good way to do it is Select and highlight everything from 4000-8500 in Low speed and 4500-8500 in High speed fuel tables and just lower by -5% because that's what rpms you want more power in.

I'm running just the Injen CAI base map and all i did to it was lower the fuel by -5% in those rpm ranges and i'm getting 12.3-13.1 AFR at WOT. I had to increase a little fuel in cyl 2 and 3 though cause they knock, not at WOT but during regular low rpm daily driving, so wierd. However just richen those two cylinders by like 5-7% I have my cyl 2 at 7% and cyl 3 at 4% and no knocks at WOT or daily driving and my car pulls like a freakin BEAST.

I was almost not prepared for it when i first loaded the new map haha.

[Dan0545]

All I can say is wow. My Si runs so damn good with the FP. As soon as I started it I noticed a difference in the idle. I backed out of my driveway and giving it partial throttle up my road I could feel it wanted to pull. Overall, the smooth vtec crossover is the hardest thing I'm getting used to so far. I am nothing but impressed with the overall performance of this car now!

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

Cliff’s Notes:
You are wrong. At least research so that when you DO talk out your ass, you at least seem somewhat informed.

I'm wrong? I've only been working with PC's since I was 7 years old. I think I know a thing or two and have YET to destroy any flash drives just from pulling them out (or any other USB device).

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

Long, nicer version:



I'm not going to argue with you. But unless Hondata comes in here and says they've completely mitigated the risk using this USB cable, I guarantee you you're wrong.




Rubbing your hand through your hair isn’t going to build up static electricity. So it's pretty evident you don’t understand the actual mechanics behind ESD. And you touch the “electronics” every single time you handle the USB cable’s male end. Where, exactly, do you think that cable leads to when plugged in and how, exactly, does electricity and data transmittal work since you don’t believe ESD can damage USB devices?

That was just a sarcastic example and is not going to translate over the internet. Fact is you're not going to destroy the FlashPro unless there's physical problem with the device or what it's plugged into. I've had TWO different flashers (one for my Ford that worked just like the FPro, and now the FPro). I've plugged and unplugged a gazillion USB devices and have YET to destroy one. My day to day work duties revolve around fixing user desktops for the hospital I work with (yes, I'm in I.T.). And you know how many USB devices we have fried in the 4 years I've been with the company? 0.

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

And you know the very SECOND an OS has stopped addressing a given device? Really?

Quite easy to tell if you're copying a file from the PC to a flash drive. But I never *said* you shouldn't use the 'safely remove hardware'. I only stated you're not going to destroy the USB device by just unplugging it. Sure you might corrupt it if you don't. I *have* had that happen when someone got too happy go lucky with the flash drive. You know how often users at the hospital use that feature? Yeah... rarely. THey just pull the drive, cause a 2MB powerpoint presentation doesn't take more than 2 seconds to write to the drive.

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

You could be charged with static electricity when you grab the plastic or rubber protective cover of a given device. When you pull the device out, the static electricity can make the jump to the metal part of the male end that just came out of the computer.

Again, that is an extremely remote possibility.

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

While removing an external HDD, without stopping it in the OS, typically won't hurt it, the same CANNOT be said for ANY flash based electronic product. Even though you may not experience a complete material failure, and your FP not work, over time, the oscillator that controls the memory addressing and data placement, as well as the traces upon which the paths are made, can be damaged. Sometimes that damage means it will never work again. Sometimes, it means it’s damaged just barely enough so that the memory isn’t completely addressable, but the rest is. Depending on the software being run, that might make the component unusable. And then there’s the slow degradation damage. Over time, with enough repeated instances, you will eventually render the product, FP in this case, unusable. Just like a light bulb’s filament eventually getting worn out till it breaks.

Again, you're talking about remote possibilities. I see no reason to make people paranoid about something that has a 0.01% change of happening.

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

ESD from static electricity may never cause your FP to give up the blue ghost. It might just work forever. But what if you live in Arizona, or some other arid environment, and it’s the middle of winter and your FP just stops working one day? Well, now you’ll know why.

I've had my ECU flash devices working in the cold and in the heat... they have yet to give up the ghost.

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

It’s possible that you will never have an issue from ESD even though you plug and unplug a device ten times a day. With today’s technology and the newish ESD standards, which not everyone is required to follow, the likelihood of damaging your FP is probably quite small. But remember, electronic devices are getting smaller and smaller. The IC on this FP is probably pretty new tech. The memory might be an older type, but still, the newer the technology, the smaller the fab processes for it. The smaller the process and the lower the operating voltage of a given product, like the oscillator on memory sticks, the MORE likely it is to be damaged by ESD. Most IC’s are only capable of 5000v HBM before the metal oxides are damaged. ESD’s from human’s to metal can be 20,000-25,000 volts. You can begin to “feel” an ESD event on your fingertip at 3,000 volts just to give you some perspective.

Again... you wrote way too much about something that does not have a good likelihood of happening.

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

Seriously, do some research before you give such all encompassing “advice” like you have here. Google is pretty good and so is Bing. I’m not aware of any manufacturer of memory chips who don’t include warnings about ESD with their products or on their websites. But just to get you started:

Kingston says otherwise and is one of the oldest and most well known memory suppliers out there.

PC World referring to overall computing habits and ESD considerations.

Micro hard drives can be affected by it. Hitachi is one of the leading HDD makers in the world.

A British based Blog about computing and good habits. A veritable gold mine of information.

I'm sorry, I don't need Google, Bing, or any of those manufacturer sites to tell me stuff I already know.

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

You just love using the word hot-swappable huh? But it doesn't make one whit of difference if you aren't following basic safety guidelines. Did you know that the Antec Sonata case, just one out of hundred's, if not thousands of computer cases out there, has a serious issue with shorting on the front two USB ports due to a lack of proper grounding? The Sonata case has been used by so many white-box computer manufacturer's as to be a boring ass case now. Even if it is one of my favorites.

That's a hardware issue with the case, not the USB specification. Which again.. hot-swappable. You're telling me that something that runs on a 5V bus that doesn't even draw 1W of power is going to suddenly arc and fry itself? Chances of that are so tiny it's laughable.

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

It's obvious you're smarter than I am when it comes to ECU tuning. For info about that, I will defer to your knowledge. You should learn when to do the same when your knowledge is lacking and not just make **** up because that's the easiest solution for you.

Thanks.

I may not have an electronics expert but I have almost 20 years of PC experience under my belt. I have yet to see a USB device fry itself from being unplugged. I have seen a few UPS batteries almost blow up though.

[Bboy_Burst]

Originally Posted by JEA86

i noticed my needle dropped ALOT faster but i still had 3 gallons left in the tank... I still do mine the old fashon way LOL by milage

my gas gauge drops a lot faster now that i have FlashPro, but once it gets to like 3 bars, it stays there for a long time.

[mix]

i do have to say my gas gauge acts weird and drops quickly then goes back after i turn off the car and then back on after awhile. But the low fuel light always works on time. But i do have to say with the custom tune i just got 30 miles to the gallon again, with hwy, and aggressive city driving. lol.

[bouncer07]

My experience was for the first 100 miles it will drop 3 bars and will be steady agian. I get near 300 miles on a full tank. My last 3-4 bars will last me quite a distance before the light will blink.

To everyone that noticed the gas drop..

If this was your first VTEC engine modified lowering the vtec engagement will hurt fuel since it will kick in earlier. Until the car is fully tuned, you will get better mpg.

[VTXFrank]

Originally Posted by VitViper

I may not have an electronics expert but I have almost 20 years of PC experience under my belt. I have yet to see a USB device fry itself from being unplugged. I have seen a few UPS batteries almost blow up though.

I'm no "expert" either, just educated and experienced. I've done IT work for many years and my major was Information Systems Technology. I've not been in the IT field for over four years though, but still do some consultation/research/article work for a couple of websites. I've been involved with computers since I was given a TRS-80 by my grandfather when they first came out.

While you are at one end of the spectrum, I'm at the other. Is the possibility remote? I wouldn't call it remote. It could just be the area you're in that leads to your reduction in ESD damaged devices. I've not seen a USB HDD be damaged beyond being usable. But I've seen a LOT of dead USB NAND flash memory based objects die. In Colorado Springs to Iraq and on to Bakersfield, California. And a few, like five or six, since moving here to Fort Rucker. Having worked for DOIM, we see things come in from over 4,000 people.

Typically, it's going to occur in the winter time, on a drier, lower humidity day than normal. Since the vast majority of our members are youngish people with limited budget's and computing experience, I chose to go to the doom and gloom route. While you are correct that the possibility of this happening for *most* people is low, the climate is the determining factor.

Me, I'd rather know so I can be at least half ass careful when sparks start jumping around this winter than to of never had the importance of ESD protection impressed upon me.