2012 Honda Civic Si Getting Torquier 200-HP 2.4L

[Strate L O S S]

You mean that right ? I pretty much agree with what he says. I like high revs, people who like 30mph 2k rpm pulls in 5th gear go buy sething that caters your needs.

[redclown]

If they lower the redline its not the first time... they lowered the redline on the s2000 when they increased the displacement way back when... but 8k redline is still possible with a 2.4L....

[DedRok]

Originally Posted by NYhUStLA914

there is already a thread on this, the civic si is gonna be such a fail by increasing horsepower by about 1 percent and lowering the redline

I rather have more torque than a high redline....

Toque is better for daily driving.

[justfloorit]

Originally Posted by DedRok

I rather have more torque than a high redline....

Toque is better for daily driving.

I agree, I'd give up 1k or so.

[FBP-FG2]

7k redline is gonna suck. I have a 7800 redline on my z with more torque than the si will ever dream of having. I think 8k redline is very possible with a 2.4L.

[nttdemented]

Are people actually crying about getting a K24 as stock factory equipment on the new Si? Really??

The mayority of 8th Gen owners slober over dropping a K24 bottom end on their cars, and now that honda is giving it to you on the new one as the base Si engine people are crying over a few less revs. Sure going to 8.2k RPM's stock is exciting but who cares when you're making a good 40lbs of additional torque. Not to mention the tuning capabilities of the K series engines as a whole and now you get to start from the cream of the crop.

Quit crying, the new car will be awesome. More torque, reportedly less weight and as usual there should be a little more rigidity as part of improvements on overall progress with design and manufacturing techniques.

The only thing I'd cry about is if the stock head on this new K24 came with a built in exhaust manifold, that would be a good reason to cry. Then again, from tuner's stand point, we wouldbe back at squre one if we need to swap the head instead of the bottom end to reach high levels of awesomeness. But I doubt Honda will do that to the Si. I understand them doing it to the Fit and other vehicles but not a performance oriented model like the Si. At least I hope they dont.

[FGBOY]

Originally Posted by nttdemented

Are people actually crying about getting a K24 as stock factory equipment on the new Si? Really??

The mayority of 8th Gen owners slober over dropping a K24 bottom end on their cars, and now that honda is giving it to you on the new one as the base Si engine people are crying over a few less revs. Sure going to 8.2k RPM's stock is exciting but who cares when you're making a good 40lbs of additional torque. Not to mention the tuning capabilities of the K series engines as a whole and now you get to start from the cream of the crop.

Quit crying, the new car will be awesome. More torque, reportedly less weight and as usual there should be a little more rigidity as part of improvements on overall progress with design and manufacturing techniques.

The only thing I'd cry about is if the stock head on this new K24 came with a built in exhaust manifold, that would be a good reason to cry. Then again, from tuner's stand point, we wouldbe back at squre one if we need to swap the head instead of the bottom end to reach high levels of awesomeness. But I doubt Honda will do that to the Si. I understand them doing it to the Fit and other vehicles but not a performance oriented model like the Si. At least I hope they dont.

Exactly couldn't of said it any better...just swap a K20R head on it with bolt ons and it's on!!

[sloth4urluv]

I took it upon myself to run some simulations.

The results didn't surprise me.
(Based off of Dyno data & gearing ratios from TSX and Si)
(Assuming a shift time of .75 seconds for both vehicles)

(The spikes and dips you see are from the K24 having more torque, but reaching its Rev limiter quicker. At that point the K20 is putting more torque to the wheels because it is in a lower gear, and begins to catch up. When the K20 reaches its Rev limit and changes gear, the K24 again begins to pull on the K20.)

At any rate I am still disappointed in the decision to use the K24.
While it is faster (slightly), it completely killed the personality the car once had.
If Honda didn't want to release a new engine family, they should have at the least reused parts and gave us some sort of Frankenstein K22 that would have been able to maintain its 8200 RPM fuel cut & provide more Torque.

I was severely disappointed we have not seen a-VTEC or DI yet.

Anyways, those are just my opinions.

Originally Posted by Davey C.

One of the biggest american delusions of all time is that torque is somehow what "wins races."

Agree. Torque is a meaningless number without specifying the rate at which it is being delivered.
"Wheel Torque" wins races.
I can jump on a 1ft lever and apply more torque than 134 ft-lb, does that mean I am more powerful than my engine?

There are other factors that come into play like operating range and gearing, not too mention weight of the car and coefficient of drag.

[hondaonchrome]

I really love the new looks to the si....i just hope whatever the powertrain is going to be i hope its something worth talking about....(in a good way..lol)....Fingers are crossed....lol

[Mjrn.]

Hondas have always been high revving NAs, but it's time to step it up. Turbos aren't what they used to be. There isn't the same lag or reliability issues and we're getting smoked on everything but autox tracks (USDM that is, JDM is a different story). We have a lot less torque but we also have less horsepower too now. Honda's saving grace is its overall reliability (which is slipping), fuel economy, and chassis.

[jonofmac]

Originally Posted by Mjrn.

Hondas have always been high revving NAs, but it's time to step it up. Turbos aren't what they used to be. There isn't the same lag or reliability issues and we're getting smoked on everything but autox tracks (USDM that is, JDM is a different story). We have a lot less torque but we also have less horsepower too now. Honda's saving grace is its overall reliability (which is slipping), fuel economy, and chassis.

Agreed, but these points are also becoming less valid too

-Overall Reliability (Slipping as you stated)
-Fuel Economy (We're being surpassed by cars that make more HP, V6 Stang is an example, 300ish hp with 29 mpg highway)
-Chassis (Well, rattles galore lol.)

I <3 my civic though. And I still spank cars that cost 3x my car's cost in Autocross all day I love it. People get so angry "I LOST TO A CIVIC!?!?" and i'm like yeahhhh. 12th out of 52. Only lost to heavily modded S2ks and heavily modded miatas.

[jonofmac]

People seem to be sad about a 2.4L...

Go read through the K24/k20 swap threads and look at some dyno charts. Most people can still rev to 8200 and their torque line is beauuuttiifulllll down low.

[sloth4urluv]

Originally Posted by jonofmac

People seem to be sad about a 2.4L...

Go read through the K24/k20 swap threads and look at some dyno charts. Most people can still rev to 8200 and their torque line is beauuuttiifulllll down low.

Most people touch the internals while they are at.
8200 RPM on a stock block is not recommended. The stroke length causes a lot of stress on the rods and cylinder wall.
Additionally the stock head will not get you anything at that RPM anyways.

If we were getting a heavily modified version of the K24 I don't think anybody would be complaining.

Anyways I am sure the new civic will be better, just not the civic people were hoping for.

[FBP-FG2]

The new Si will be what it is...but instead of buying a new one (~25g or so), get a used 8th for around 15g and (money permiting), you have 10g to put towards mods. That's a nice turbo setup that will put you passed most cars that are much more expensive. I wouldn't complain about the new Si unless you are considering getting one. Even then, most of this debate is still speculation.

[2point]

and putting another 10G into a used car is such a good idea.. .

If you think about it, and have driven the competition or compared multiple cars at all, Torquier motors feel quicker and more fun around town. We enthusiast like to mod and take advantage of 8400 rpm but not everyone wants to rap out first gear and 2nd gear around town. If honda can get the Hp and trq numbers up there and keep fuel economy, then it's going to be a big win for Honda in side by side test drive comparisons verse competitors.

[951Si]

wow...if the new 2012 Si will have 200-210hp and 170+tq...i might be well back in the Honda family. Looking forward to seeing to this.

[fg2onspray]

if it has a integrated exhaust manifold the only modification that will be worth while is forced induction.

plain and simple

[Will06SI]

Who cares boost your current SI and forget about the new 1..

[GlxyGry06Si]

Originally Posted by fg2onspray

if it has a integrated exhaust manifold the only modification that will be worth while is forced induction.

plain and simple

unless you swap heads.

[Gridsinister]

Originally Posted by NYhUStLA914

there is already a thread on this, the civic si is gonna be such a fail by increasing horsepower by about 1 percent and lowering the redline

the only thing the next Si needs is more torque, nuff said