got torque?

thomasorallye · 04-20-2006, 12:19 AM

i hate to say i have a negative comment about my si, but the lack of torque is a disappointment to me....i love the car's top end...3rd gear is tha sh*t! but take off is mediocre at best....sigh...anyone else's thoughts on this?

Fishytron · 04-20-2006, 12:31 AM

Whats your launch rpms?

For a NA 4 cyl. and has great accel. in its class with othe Turbo and SC powerplants. I see the civic si as the best platform to improve on in the class even if its numbers are slightly off its competetors.

aznkukuboi · 04-20-2006, 01:29 AM

197 hp NA is pretty decent to me.

thomasorallye · 04-20-2006, 01:58 AM

im not talking hp, im talking torque....i see your point about great place to start, but the huge improvement that can be made will void the waranty (turbos,etc.), so that can't be done until after thats up, unless you dont care about that...so, i gotta learn to push the car how it was designed

negativezeroz · 04-20-2006, 08:55 AM

Torque FTW. Also, it's been proven our K20Z3 really has in the ball park of 217bhp. Instead of 197. Since all the dynos are pushing high 180's at the wheels stock.

But that doesn't help our torque factor...

2RotorMotor · 04-20-2006, 09:28 AM

Who needs torque when you redline at 8k...Well the actual redline is at 8 but you can hit 82-8300 before the limiter stops... And well, thats before we can have some type of reflash. This motor will wake up considerably with cams and redline at 9k and vteck moved down to about 5k. Sort of like the TOv setup.

skittleslegend · 04-20-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasorallye

i hate to say i have a negative comment about my si, but the lack of torque is a disappointment to me....i love the car's top end...3rd gear is tha sh*t! but take off is mediocre at best....sigh...anyone else's thoughts on this?

Have you never driven a Honda before? If so, the lack of torque shouldn't a surprise. Honda's spread their torque over a wider range, which is why we have to rev the beejeezus out of it to get a decent launch. It's not that big of a deal to be honest. Revving the car is why I fell in love with Hondas in the first place.

You want torque go drive a Volkswagen....

Zesti1 · 04-20-2006, 10:42 AM

Yeah Im not digging the lack of torque either, but we just have to live with it pretty much!

Would be nice to have the thing rocket out of the hole like a V8.

**twistedframe** · 04-20-2006, 10:46 AM

yeah but if it was an american v8 it would only rev to 6000rpm and it would blow up after 5000 miles.

j/k
Honda FTW!

larryd · 04-20-2006, 10:49 AM

If you wanted something torquey you bought the wrong car. High revving 4 cylinders are definitely not known for torque.

Though to correct the problem might I suggest turbo or s/c :)

Zesti1 · 04-20-2006, 10:49 AM

LOL true true

Fixer · 04-20-2006, 12:09 PM

Something that amazes me is that, despite low initial torque numbers, the Si achieves literally idential 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times to that of the VW GTI (TC) and the John Cooper edition Mini Cooper (SC). They did a 3 car comparison in Road & Track 2 months back. Very good article. Looking at the graph of the times, it looked like the same damn line. 3 cars, 3 different power plant philosophies yet identical results essentially. So the numbers seem to indicate low torque and perhaps seat of the pants makes if feel like low torque, but the reality is that the Si moves along quite smartly. This coming from a guy who is still waiting for his car of course. :rolleyes:

Last fun car was a 2000 Miata. Did some suspension and exhaust upgrades but no major power added. Car had little torque and not much in the way of HP at all. But I had a blast with that thing. I learned where the useful powerband was located, knew the limits of the brakes and tires and simply had a blast with it. Didn't need to impress anyone other than myself. The same will hold true for my Si when it arrives. It's intended to be a fun car for me and me alone. Wife has a nice CR-V EX. I will learn the limits of my Si and have fun with it every chance I get. Looking forward to that high revving engine.

thomasorallye · 04-20-2006, 12:10 PM

i agree with y'all about the high revving engine and the torque spread....no, i've never owned or driven a honda...i never even got to test drive the si before i put money down on it....maybe it's cuz it's so damn smooth that it doesn't feel like you're hauling ass....dunno...i'm definately going FI after my warranty is up...i think this is a sick motor with MUCHO potential

macmonkey84 · 04-20-2006, 01:41 PM

Well the advantage of moving your torque up higher into the RPMs is that you can take advantage of gearing. When your go to 7800 RPMs and then shift, you fall down to about 6000 RPMs, and excuse me if I'm wrong, but at 6100 RPMs is where the VTEC kicks in as well as reaching 140 lbs of torque. The engine is designed well for high end revving, and compared to all other DOHC i4s, you won't find anything that competes, even with a close ratio gear box. The bigger the engine, the more it weighs, and the more it softens its own torque gains. I personally like a car with versatility, easy at the low ends and powerful at the high ends.

2RotorMotor · 04-20-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macmonkey84

Well the advantage of moving your torque up higher into the RPMs is that you can take advantage of gearing. When your go to 7800 RPMs and then shift, you fall down to about 6000 RPMs, and excuse me if I'm wrong, but at 6100 RPMs is where the VTEC kicks in as well as reaching 140 lbs of torque. The engine is designed well for high end revving, and compared to all other DOHC i4s, you won't find anything that competes, even with a close ratio gear box. The bigger the engine, the more it weighs, and the more it softens its own torque gains. I personally like a car with versatility, easy at the low ends and powerful at the high ends.

Well, mine kicks at 6k or a little before the needles hits the 6.

Slug · 04-21-2006, 06:23 PM

Torque and Horsepower

http://g-speed.com/pbh/torque-and-hp.html

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_power.shtml

Kroze · 04-21-2006, 08:25 PM

Honda ? Torque ?

thomasorallye · 04-22-2006, 01:56 AM

wow,thanks for the links to those articles, slug! i may have to read them a couple of times, but they do tell me why my buddy's tc pulls harder than my si but has slower 1/4 mile times...the torque in the tc pushes you back in your seat, which initially disappointed me about my si, but i now see how crutial gearing and rpm's are to how fast the car moves...very educating stuff!!! thanks alot

Slug · 04-22-2006, 03:38 AM

You're welcome thomas.

For those of you who don't want to do all the reading, I'll try and condense it for you.

Torque is a measure of force, not a measure of power.
Horsepower is a measure of work.
Horsepower is the combination of engine torque and engine rpm.
The transmission multiplies torque, but not horsepower.

When all the arguing is over ... it's horsepower that does the job, not torque.

04-20-2006, 12:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
thomasorallye Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: mobile, AL. Age: 33 Posts: 110 Thomas Welch iTrader: 0 / 0%	got torque? i hate to say i have a negative comment about my si, but the lack of torque is a disappointment to me....i love the car's top end...3rd gear is tha sh*t! but take off is mediocre at best....sigh...anyone else's thoughts on this?

04-22-2006, 01:56 AM	#18 (permalink)
thomasorallye Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: mobile, AL. Age: 33 Posts: 110 Thomas Welch iTrader: 0 / 0%	killer links wow,thanks for the links to those articles, slug! i may have to read them a couple of times, but they do tell me why my buddy's tc pulls harder than my si but has slower 1/4 mile times...the torque in the tc pushes you back in your seat, which initially disappointed me about my si, but i now see how crutial gearing and rpm's are to how fast the car moves...very educating stuff!!! thanks alot

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04-20-2006, 12:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
Fishytron Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Detroit Age: 23 Posts: 471 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Whats your launch rpms? For a NA 4 cyl. and has great accel. in its class with othe Turbo and SC powerplants. I see the civic si as the best platform to improve on in the class even if its numbers are slightly off its competetors.

04-20-2006, 01:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
aznkukuboi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 117 iTrader: 0 / 0%	197 hp NA is pretty decent to me.

04-20-2006, 01:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
thomasorallye Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: mobile, AL. Age: 33 Posts: 110 Thomas Welch iTrader: 0 / 0%	im not talking hp, im talking torque....i see your point about great place to start, but the huge improvement that can be made will void the waranty (turbos,etc.), so that can't be done until after thats up, unless you dont care about that...so, i gotta learn to push the car how it was designed

04-20-2006, 08:55 AM	#5 (permalink)
negativezeroz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: OK Age: 20 Posts: 1,677 iTrader: 2 / 100%	Torque FTW. Also, it's been proven our K20Z3 really has in the ball park of 217bhp. Instead of 197. Since all the dynos are pushing high 180's at the wheels stock. But that doesn't help our torque factor...

04-20-2006, 09:28 AM	#6 (permalink)
2RotorMotor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,907 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Who needs torque when you redline at 8k...Well the actual redline is at 8 but you can hit 82-8300 before the limiter stops... And well, thats before we can have some type of reflash. This motor will wake up considerably with cams and redline at 9k and vteck moved down to about 5k. Sort of like the TOv setup.

04-20-2006, 10:42 AM	#8 (permalink)
Zesti1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brampton, ON Age: 28 Posts: 4,548 Joseph iTrader: 8 / 100%	Yeah Im not digging the lack of torque either, but we just have to live with it pretty much! Would be nice to have the thing rocket out of the hole like a V8.

04-20-2006, 10:49 AM	#10 (permalink)
larryd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 1,814 iTrader: 2 / 100%	If you wanted something torquey you bought the wrong car. High revving 4 cylinders are definitely not known for torque. Though to correct the problem might I suggest turbo or s/c :)

04-20-2006, 10:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
Zesti1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Brampton, ON Age: 28 Posts: 4,548 Joseph iTrader: 8 / 100%	LOL true true

04-20-2006, 12:09 PM	#12 (permalink)
Fixer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 628 Esteban iTrader: 0 / 0%	Something that amazes me is that, despite low initial torque numbers, the Si achieves literally idential 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times to that of the VW GTI (TC) and the John Cooper edition Mini Cooper (SC). They did a 3 car comparison in Road & Track 2 months back. Very good article. Looking at the graph of the times, it looked like the same damn line. 3 cars, 3 different power plant philosophies yet identical results essentially. So the numbers seem to indicate low torque and perhaps seat of the pants makes if feel like low torque, but the reality is that the Si moves along quite smartly. This coming from a guy who is still waiting for his car of course. :rolleyes: Last fun car was a 2000 Miata. Did some suspension and exhaust upgrades but no major power added. Car had little torque and not much in the way of HP at all. But I had a blast with that thing. I learned where the useful powerband was located, knew the limits of the brakes and tires and simply had a blast with it. Didn't need to impress anyone other than myself. The same will hold true for my Si when it arrives. It's intended to be a fun car for me and me alone. Wife has a nice CR-V EX. I will learn the limits of my Si and have fun with it every chance I get. Looking forward to that high revving engine.

04-20-2006, 12:10 PM	#13 (permalink)
thomasorallye Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: mobile, AL. Age: 33 Posts: 110 Thomas Welch iTrader: 0 / 0%	i agree with y'all about the high revving engine and the torque spread....no, i've never owned or driven a honda...i never even got to test drive the si before i put money down on it....maybe it's cuz it's so damn smooth that it doesn't feel like you're hauling ass....dunno...i'm definately going FI after my warranty is up...i think this is a sick motor with MUCHO potential

04-20-2006, 01:41 PM	#14 (permalink)
macmonkey84 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 24 Posts: 105 Walter iTrader: 0 / 0%	Well the advantage of moving your torque up higher into the RPMs is that you can take advantage of gearing. When your go to 7800 RPMs and then shift, you fall down to about 6000 RPMs, and excuse me if I'm wrong, but at 6100 RPMs is where the VTEC kicks in as well as reaching 140 lbs of torque. The engine is designed well for high end revving, and compared to all other DOHC i4s, you won't find anything that competes, even with a close ratio gear box. The bigger the engine, the more it weighs, and the more it softens its own torque gains. I personally like a car with versatility, easy at the low ends and powerful at the high ends.

04-21-2006, 06:23 PM	#16 (permalink)
Slug Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 68 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Torque and Horsepower http://g-speed.com/pbh/torque-and-hp.html http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_power.shtml

04-21-2006, 08:25 PM	#17 (permalink)
Kroze Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 655 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Honda ? Torque ?

04-22-2006, 03:38 AM	#19 (permalink)
Slug Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 68 iTrader: 0 / 0%	You're welcome thomas. For those of you who don't want to do all the reading, I'll try and condense it for you. Torque is a measure of force, not a measure of power. Horsepower is a measure of work. Horsepower is the combination of engine torque and engine rpm. The transmission multiplies torque, but not horsepower. When all the arguing is over ... it's horsepower that does the job, not torque.