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Old 12-03-2012, 08:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Best way to troubleshoot is to eliminate failure points.

Put your stock shifter back in.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Looks like I will swap out the shifter first. Then see what happens
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:22 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The only reason I am not able to see the cables contributing play is because I have never seen a case of that, and I can't see any evidence for it based on the 2nd video you posted. Since the transmission levers move when you move the shifter, I am not seeing motion being lost in the cables. If there is a problem to be found, you'll need to be more methodical about finding it. Swapping out the shifter for a stock one and checking the shifting action is a good start. Unfortunately, if there is play, the next step would be to try the OEM shifter and OEM cables (without aftermarket bushings), which I assume is not an option.

I'm trying to help, but without someone on your end following the troubleshooting steps I'm suggesting, it's difficult for me to help you solve your problem. You're always welcome to send the cables in to be checked, but I would try to follow the suggested troubleshooting methods first, as I do not suspect we are going to find any problems with the cables.

Perhaps someone else using hr cables and a twm shifter can chime in with experience?

~russ
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Were the cables designed using the stock shifter and bushings? Or with an aftermarket set? It could just be the fact that the parts don't work in the current combination. It's a risk that is always there when using parts from different companies.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirbelch View Post
Were the cables designed using the stock shifter and bushings? Or with an aftermarket set? It could just be the fact that the parts don't work in the current combination. It's a risk that is always there when using parts from different companies.
Our parts are always designed to be compatible with OEM components. Making sure other companies do the same is out of the scope of design, obviously. Note that the cables do not require or allow the use of cable bushings, since they are built into the cables.

From what I am seeing in the 2 videos you are posting, when you move the shifter, I am not immediately seeing a lot of play in the shifter. I see no play in the shifter/shift cable interface, and then I am not seeing notable play between the cable/tranny interface. I am only seeing play in the first video at the shift knob and the 2nd video at the tranny levers (indicating play coming from within the transmission). Until more troubleshooting is done to look for more issues, I'm not positive there's an issue with the shifter OR cables.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Listen to try and help i had the same issue with my twm and mugen shifter with these cables. I dont think its in any way the cables, its just that the cables are so solid and much better its bringing out the remaining weak points. I switched out to stock and it got better. I then sprung for the hybrid shifter and bingo my cars shifting it tight precise rifle gun action clean smooth minimal play. I think the twm along with the hybrid cables and its more pronounced so try switching it out.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:57 AM   #27 (permalink)
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it really sucks that we keep buying hondas and complaining about their shifting ability. then spending more money trying to fix what honda engineers cant seem to figure out.just me??
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:21 AM   #28 (permalink)
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No problem with cables or shifter after much trouble shooting. Comes to find out I had the hr cables kinda crossed over each other under the car and tranny must have a little play.
End topic!
Thanks you Russ for your feedback.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:56 PM   #29 (permalink)
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No problem with cables or shifter after much trouble shooting. Comes to find out I had the hr cables kinda crossed over each other under the car and tranny must have a little play.
End topic!
Thanks you Russ for your feedback.
No prob, sir!

~russ
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:02 AM   #30 (permalink)
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This thread is a bit old, but it's relevant to my issue so hopefully someone can help. This weekend I installed my HR cables to go along with my HR short shifter. I'm able to shift through all the gears and it eliminated quite a bit of play. My issue however, is that my shifter doesn't seem to correctly return to center after moving it to the right toward 5/6. Moving the shifter to the left works great and it returns to the center without issue. But when it's moved to the right it feels kind of mushy and won't return to the middle.

I had a friend helping with the install, and he swapped the springs while I was holding the spring loaded selector assembly. At one point, he had both small springs in his hand, and I lost track of which one was the new one. He put the one on that he said he was certain was the correct spring and we put everything back together. My suspicion, based upon my current issue, is that he got the springs mixed up and we ended up putting the stock smaller spring back in the assembly.

Before I tear it all apart to check out my theory, I was hoping someone could at least confirm that the symptoms I'm observing seem consistent with my theory. If I remember how the assembly fits together, I'm thinking that smaller spring is the one responsible for returning to center from the right. Is there any way to tell for sure by looking at the spring? Thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:44 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Hmmm, your theory sounds plausible.

Looking at the prints for our springs, the larger hr spring should use 0.092" spring wire and have 3.4 active coils, or right around 5.4 (maybe a tad less) coils total. The length of the spring is around 1.73".

The smaller spring should use 0.063" spring wire and have 6.0 active coils, or right around 8.0 (maybe a tad less) total coils. Its free length is 1.63".

I am not sure what the specs are on the OEM springs, but hopefully that info helps.

Also check your shifter to make sure one of the springs didn't come off or break on your shifter. If you overextend the shifter to the left or right while the cables are disconnected, you can make the springs come off or damage them on accident.

~russ
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Hmmm, your theory sounds plausible.

Looking at the prints for our springs, the larger hr spring should use 0.092" spring wire and have 3.4 active coils, or right around 5.4 (maybe a tad less) coils total. The length of the spring is around 1.73".

The smaller spring should use 0.063" spring wire and have 6.0 active coils, or right around 8.0 (maybe a tad less) total coils. Its free length is 1.63".

I am not sure what the specs are on the OEM springs, but hopefully that info helps.

Also check your shifter to make sure one of the springs didn't come off or break on your shifter. If you overextend the shifter to the left or right while the cables are disconnected, you can make the springs come off or damage them on accident.

~russ
So I just spoke with Tim (and it sounded like he talked to you Russ, but figured I'd post for posterity) and he's sending me new springs for the shifter assembly. I pulled the cables off the shifter and it definitely feels like the issue is with the shifter itself. It snaps back to center without issues when moved to the left, but the right feels mushy and doesn't come back to center.

I certainly don't remember overextending the shifter during the install, in fact I don't even remember moving it. I also can't see any visible damage to the spring on the driver side. But, I assume it should be returning to center without the cables attached so I'm betting my issue is that spring. Fine with me, as it's a much easier fix than pulling the selector assemble back off the transmission and I don't have to kick my friend's butt for installing the wrong spring

Thanks Russ, Tim and HR for the assistance and great customer support. I'll check back in after I receive the spring and report if it fixes the issue.

Last edited by Nitroturtle; 06-24-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:51 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nitroturtle View Post
So I just spoke with Tim (and it sounded like he talked to you Russ, but figured I'd post for posterity) and he's sending me new springs for the shifter assembly. I pulled the cables off the shifter and it definitely feels like the issue is with the shifter itself. It snaps back to center without issues when moved to the left, but the right feels mushy and doesn't come back to center.

I certainly don't remember overextending the shifter during the install, in fact I don't even remember moving it. I also can't see any visible damage to the spring on the driver side. But, I assume it should be returning to center without the cables attached so I'm betting my issue is that spring. Fine with me, as it's a much easier fix than pulling the selector assemble back off the transmission and I don't have to kick my friend's butt for installing the wrong spring :lol:

Thanks Russ, Tim and HR for the assistance and great customer support. I'll check back in after I receive the spring and report if it fixes the issue.
When you have the springs off, make sure the shifter moves freely in all directions. If it's binding up without springs, there may be an assembly issue here. If that's the case, give us a call and I'll let you know how to troubleshoot it. There is a spring washer that would need to get flipped.

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Old 06-24-2013, 07:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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When you have the springs off, make sure the shifter moves freely in all directions. If it's binding up without springs, there may be an assembly issue here. If that's the case, give us a call and I'll let you know how to troubleshoot it. There is a spring washer that would need to get flipped.

~russ
So now I'm thoroughly confused. I've pulled the shifter assembly out of the vehicle to try to make sure the issue is with the return spring. Sitting on the bench it exhibits the same behavior. Inspection of both springs reveals no visible differences. So I figured I'd try swapping the springs to see if the issue reversed, confirming that it was indeed an overextended spring. However, after swapping the springs it acted the exact same. I then removed both springs and tried moving the assembly left and right and it's perfectly smooth in either direction. Inspection of the removed springs again revealed no visible differences.

I would expect the shifter to return to the center position when moved left or right out of the vehicle. When returning from the right it just feels like it doesn't have quite enough force to return to center. It feels exactly the same when installed in the vehicle too. It's not like there's a dead area, if I nudge it just a little it will return to center so I can tell there's at least some force pulling it toward the center position. But if I push the shifter to the right and just release it, it returns to a position between the 3/4 and 5/6 gates and it does this with or without the cables attached.

So I'm lost at what could be causing the issue. It doesn't feel like it's binding and as I mentioned it moves freely in both directions with no springs attached. I will try to find time tomorrow to call and talk about further troubleshooting and hopefully we can get to the bottom of things. Thanks again for the help.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:07 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I took a video before I put it all back together. Hopefully this will help show the issue I'm seeing.

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Old 06-25-2013, 07:35 PM   #36 (permalink)
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After driving it more, I'm really hoping changing springs helps, because it certainly doesn't feel right. I understand there will still be some play due to the transmission, but it really doesn't feel right. Still feels pretty notchy, not the butter smooth feeling everyone describes. In addition to the centering issue, it almost seems like it gets stuck going from first to second. Very frustrating after spending the weekend installing everything and expecting a smooth shifting experience as the payoff.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:10 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nitroturtle View Post
After driving it more, I'm really hoping changing springs helps, because it certainly doesn't feel right. I understand there will still be some play due to the transmission, but it really doesn't feel right. Still feels pretty notchy, not the butter smooth feeling everyone describes. In addition to the centering issue, it almost seems like it gets stuck going from first to second. Very frustrating after spending the weekend installing everything and expecting a smooth shifting experience as the payoff.
Humor me here. Loosen the 13mm hex bolt at the front of the shifter. Just a hair. See if that remedies the problem. I know you took the springs off to diagnose the shifter, but if you diagnosed it correctly you shouldn't be having this issue, unless it is infact related to transmission springs.
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:36 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Humor me here. Loosen the 13mm hex bolt at the front of the shifter. Just a hair. See if that remedies the problem. I know you took the springs off to diagnose the shifter, but if you diagnosed it correctly you shouldn't be having this issue, unless it is infact related to transmission springs.
I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but I honestly don't think it's a problem with the assembly of the shifter. When I had both springs removed, the shifter moved freely from side to side with absolutely no resistance.

It's starting to feel a little better to me, and I'm at the point where I'm wondering if the notchy feeling is due to the crap stock CMC. If I take shifts very slow, it does seem to be a lot smoother. With that said, I'm still not sure why my shifter won't return to center properly. I received replacement shifter springs last week, however they must be springs for a different assembly because they are twice as long as the ones I needed. I haven't had much more time to mess with things, but I should have some time next weekend so I'm going to pull the shift selector assembly out again and take a look. I noticed on the MTEC install instructions they mention lubing up the pivot point on the selector arm, so I'd like to clean that up a bit and lube it better to see if that helps. I'd also like to confirm for my own sanity that the correct springs were installed. I did take a picture of the spring that is not installed, but I'm not completely sure if it's stock or not.



I'll have to call in next week to see about getting the correct springs for my shifter and go from there. Can you tell me Russ, with the shifter out of the vehicle, it should return to center from the left and right positions, correct? If you have any additional troubleshooting tips I'd be glad to follow them. I'll also try loosening that front hex bolt when I get a chance and see if I notice any difference. I just don't know if I'll have time to mess with it this week as work is pretty crazy, so likely it'll be next weekend before I'm able to get it worked out.
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:55 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but I honestly don't think it's a problem with the assembly of the shifter. When I had both springs removed, the shifter moved freely from side to side with absolutely no resistance.

It's starting to feel a little better to me, and I'm at the point where I'm wondering if the notchy feeling is due to the crap stock CMC. If I take shifts very slow, it does seem to be a lot smoother. With that said, I'm still not sure why my shifter won't return to center properly. I received replacement shifter springs last week, however they must be springs for a different assembly because they are twice as long as the ones I needed. I haven't had much more time to mess with things, but I should have some time next weekend so I'm going to pull the shift selector assembly out again and take a look. I noticed on the MTEC install instructions they mention lubing up the pivot point on the selector arm, so I'd like to clean that up a bit and lube it better to see if that helps. I'd also like to confirm for my own sanity that the correct springs were installed. I did take a picture of the spring that is not installed, but I'm not completely sure if it's stock or not.

image


I'll have to call in next week to see about getting the correct springs for my shifter and go from there. Can you tell me Russ, with the shifter out of the vehicle, it should return to center from the left and right positions, correct? If you have any additional troubleshooting tips I'd be glad to follow them. I'll also try loosening that front hex bolt when I get a chance and see if I notice any difference. I just don't know if I'll have time to mess with it this week as work is pretty crazy, so likely it'll be next weekend before I'm able to get it worked out.
No rush, you can get in touch with us whenever you'd like. The shifter's neutral springs mostly just return the shifter itself to neutral. If you took the springs out of the tranny, the springs on the shifter wouldn't have enough force to pull the cables to neutral. It's the transmission springs that do the brunt of the work getting the shift knob to the neutral position. That's why we provide upgraded springs with our beefier cables, to compensate for the thicker cores.

~russ
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:27 PM   #40 (permalink)
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No rush, you can get in touch with us whenever you'd like. The shifter's neutral springs mostly just return the shifter itself to neutral. If you took the springs out of the tranny, the springs on the shifter wouldn't have enough force to pull the cables to neutral. It's the transmission springs that do the brunt of the work getting the shift knob to the neutral position. That's why we provide upgraded springs with our beefier cables, to compensate for the thicker cores.

~russ
I called today and replacement shifter springs are on the way. So if the trans springs do most of the work, does it seem fine that the shifter doesn't return to center while removed from the car (with no cables attached, obviously)? When I remove the shifter, it acts exactly the same as it does in my video posted above.
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