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Old 11-20-2012, 03:25 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SlowSiIsSlow View Post
Most likely you heard that from a honda owner who is slowly losing his friends to the subaru scene... Yes the handling of AWD is far superior to FWD.... in fact FWD is only useful in slower cars like 4 bangers.
And you got this information where exactly?

I test drove a 2011 WRX as well (since we're just throwing around hearsay, what the hey) and it handled so much WORSE than my stock Si. The car feels sloppy: too soft, too much body roll, not confidence inspiring whatsoever.

Talk to testify. He autox'd a 2011 WRX.

The only thing that makes AWD handle well folks is electronics. That's it. Which the WRX doesn't really have much of, BTW (and no limited slip differentials). You want an AWD handling monster? Get an Evo or a GT-R (both of which have boat loads of electronics and differentials to make them handle the way they do).

Oh, and BTW. The new Audi TT RS race car is ... FWD.

http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front+wheel-drive-tt+rs-racecar#13534437799633&{"type":"iframeUpdated","he ight":1430}

Last edited by glxygreysi08; 11-20-2012 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:52 PM   #42 (permalink)
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@ wrxs
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:58 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by glxygreysi08 View Post
And you got this information where exactly?

I test drove a 2011 WRX as well (since we're just throwing around hearsay, what the hey) and it handled so much WORSE than my stock Si. The car feels sloppy: too soft, too much body roll, not confidence inspiring whatsoever.

Talk to testify. He autox'd a 2011 WRX.

The only thing that makes AWD handle well folks is electronics. That's it. Which the WRX doesn't really have much of, BTW (and no limited slip differentials). You want an AWD handling monster? Get an Evo or a GT-R (both of which have boat loads of electronics and differentials to make them handle the way they do).
People confuse handling with grip, even with open diff's there is a lot of grip.

I'm not sure about "too soft or too sloppy" that will depend on your preferences and uses; for a non tracked DD living in a place that has **** roads I have no real desire to firm up my suspension. The WRX isn't the sharpest tool in stock form but it's a reasonably effective one; your approach to getting round the track would be different in a WRX than it would be in an SI.

In stock trim Evo's and STi's in stock trim are a lot closer than the various brotato's would have you believe. The Evo's electronics make it *easier* to drive fast but that doesn't actually equate to better handling, it just has very good training wheels to keep you from driving off the track. Take a look at performance comparisons of the two cars with professional drivers behind the wheels - lap times are typically within .5 seconds of eachother; when top gear compared the latest Evo/Sti the Sti actually ran .02 (yep that much) faster than the Evo and generally even the Top Gear presenters admit they'd rather *own* the subaru when they do these comparisons

Again this is all academic, 99% of the people on these forums don't possess the skills (myself included) to drive either an Evo or an STI on a track at or near their limits without stuffing into a wall.

I have love for Evo's but for a DD I think Subaru has a better balance.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:59 PM   #44 (permalink)
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get an HFP suspension. it made me fall in love with my car all over again
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:18 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spoony View Post
People confuse handling with grip, even with open diff's there is a lot of grip.

I'm not sure about "too soft or too sloppy" that will depend on your preferences and uses; for a non tracked DD living in a place that has **** roads I have no real desire to firm up my suspension. The WRX isn't the sharpest tool in stock form but it's a reasonably effective one; your approach to getting round the track would be different in a WRX than it would be in an SI.

In stock trim Evo's and STi's in stock trim are a lot closer than the various brotato's would have you believe. The Evo's electronics make it *easier* to drive fast but that doesn't actually equate to better handling, it just has very good training wheels to keep you from driving off the track. Take a look at performance comparisons of the two cars with professional drivers behind the wheels - lap times are typically within .5 seconds of eachother; when top gear compared the latest Evo/Sti the Sti actually ran .02 (yep that much) faster than the Evo and generally even the Top Gear presenters admit they'd rather *own* the subaru when they do these comparisons

Again this is all academic, 99% of the people on these forums don't possess the skills (myself included) to drive either an Evo or an STI on a track at or near their limits without stuffing into a wall.

I have love for Evo's but for a DD I think Subaru has a better balance.
I agree with you: STi's are probably better daily drivers (again, opinion based).

However, from a performance standpoint, the STi is inferior in almost every aspect. The 4g63t motor in the Evo VIII and Evo IX is basically bulletproof and can make ridiculous power without touching the internals.

Last edited by glxygreysi08; 11-20-2012 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:27 PM   #46 (permalink)
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K24/K20 frank motor! no boost...AND oem!
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:38 PM   #47 (permalink)
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See what i mean? ^^^^ Loyal honda owners will always badmouth the superior competition
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:50 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SlowSiIsSlow View Post
See what i mean? ^^^^ Loyal honda owners will always badmouth the superior competition
confused about this...whos bad mouthing the competition? the post above me comented about how the 4G63t evo engines are great engines
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #49 (permalink)
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man, some one close this thread, its not even about my car anymore lol.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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STi daily drivers lol. Do you all have injured backs?

I like beating the piss out of all of the Subies around here. They're all too concerned about being stanced, swag, and cleaning their wheels. Womp womp.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:10 PM   #51 (permalink)
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juanizzle...what mods do you currently have on ur car?
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:19 PM   #52 (permalink)
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juanizzle...what mods do you currently have on ur car?
stock
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:03 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Looks are subjective I drive a 4dr WRX and much prefer a WRX sedan to either SI, though I do quite like the looks of the SI coupe.

My girl tells me often how much she loves the way my car looks/drives. Her opinion of sexy carries a lot more weight in my world than yours.

You sound like someone who "lives their life a quarter mile at a time", your opinion on subaru's and cars in general is pretty closed. Who said anything about racing? roll racing specifically since that's all high HP FWD is any good at.

Your post is full of boy racer nonsense....watching people get walked by EK hatches trapping 150 blah blah, were you at one of those cool street racer meets where people run for pinks too? Who the hell wants to DD a stripped out high HP Civic hatch? If all you want to do is go fast in a straight line why the hell would you buy AWD or FWD anything? It's a lot cheaper to just buy a cheap RWD V8.

09+ WRX's don't have the transmission issues that plagued the earlier ones, it's very rare to see an 09+ with a broken transmission outside the guys who are launching very high HP Scoobies at the track and basically waiting for the transmission to pop anyway - if you're interested in real information about the turbo boxer 2.5 check out iWSTI or the 2.5 turbo forum over on Nasioc.

This is all just academic anyway - if you really think you might be interested go give an 09+ a test drive, preferably on a rainy day
Nonsense? You yourself say it PLAGUED the pre 09 cars big boy - and yes I mention roll racing because guess what 80%+ of the street encounters you have in real life ARE ROLL ONS.....you dont stage - nobody flags in the middle of the street and high speeds are better left for freeways anyway.....so your already at speed a 60 roll on is quite common IN THE REAL WORLD

It would be toretto STi fanboi who complains and begs for a run from a dig - where drivetrain shock is highest and where most street cars would NOT want to go from being on street tires and stock diffs....again...roll on racing is common place and common sense if you dont want to break transmissions....I have seen M5s breaks transmissions from just low speed rolls....cant imagine what a full dig launch would do to them

In terms of cheap speed - V8s arent cheap...and if you actually RACED them you know driveline parts and supporting equipment isnt cheap either...when you start to run in the 9s and 8s....things are not cheap....but being your probably stuck in slowville you would say something like that being how much money it would take to make your slobaru "fast"

Stripped out? you think you need to strip out a 650whp 2400lb hatch to go fast? Do the math ...the race mode guys are making 800+ and I wouldnt call those daily setups....you can daily a 550-650whp setup pretty easily....remember Hondas cylinder heads actually flow with little effort - unlike crappy subaru heads

Your girl tells you how sexy your frumpy looking car is? I bet she even says your great in bed too

Heres a fact - Ive been racing against WRX's since the bug eyes first landed and from FIRST hand experience racing against them know their weakness...Same when the STi's came and guys were poping motors with their cobb tunes all jacked.....meanwhile I watched friends in EVOs run high 11's with basic mods and good driving

Ive run SCCA, HPDE, NHRA and local scenes across the country - Ive been racing "cars" since I was 11 and built and raced R/C cars with AWD in the 90s....diff tuning, sus tuning, tire selection, 4 wheel drifts....BEFORE Subaru fanbois even knew what a WRX looked like

Ive run cayons, parking lots, tracks, drag strips, freeways in multiple states....closed? Ive made it a point to know my competition and learn the strengths and weaknesses of each platform/make ....Subaru is and allways will be short in the cyl head dept - as well as tarmac - talk to any WRC driver and ask him what stages they prefered running with their WRXs and youll get a certain DIRT answer....EVOs owned the tarmac stages

Anyway - Ive run enough FWD chassis to know that fanbois are all TALK until the rubber meets the road....while there may be certain inherent traits the suit platforms better than others...at the end of the day DRIVING skills in most areas will help a car shine or look lackluster.

FWD takes getting used to but can be made to rotate just fine....it isnt ideal but since its a forgiving layout makes it easier for beginners to learn to drive clean lines and in a grip fashion......you can also be more agressive with a FWD layout which gives drivers more confidence when attacking corners....again....more forgiving layout

OP is interested in a "snow" car which realistically can be a fwd bucket with snow tires on it that can rust away for all he cares.....or he can shell out cash for a floppy WRX because it has "snow" traction and then be stuck with it when the weather warms up and he wishes he has a RWD car that was lighter and more fun to drive

There are many compromises to be made in life and I wouldnt buy a WRX because I was stuck with snow in my area.....saying he likes the "boxer engine" sound is hilarious because the only reason that "sounds" like that is because of an unequal length manifold and NOT the engine....Porsche uses a boxer layout as well and does not make the sound he "thinks" a boxer motor makes.

A lightweight RWD car trumps an AWD car in most instances in weather you would race in ....center of gravity, weight, dynamics.....its why top level racing is in a 2wd format....awd racing at the club level offers more overall grip sure....but which would you rather race....a heavy AWD fridge or a lighter mid engine RWD platform?

You can buy a used Lotus Elise for WRX money....are you going to tell me the Lotus sucks and the Scooby is better? An MR car can be made to launch HARD from a stop so you can kiss that goodbye....the MR car trasitions better

So then it comes down to compromise....4 doors....now its not a matter of "racing" but a matter of usability

FWD is easier to drive - lower costs - has better fuel economy

So then it becomes a matter of power...because the subaru is turbo - its going to be chosen not because its cheaper to own or operate - but because it has more power than an Si that he already owns

An easy fix is a supercharger for the Si which would easily make enough power to fix his needs while STILL getting better gas mileage, lower insurance rates, more usable room, better truck space and IMO LOOK better than the silly subie

350-400whp in a 2900lb sedan with more room or 300-330 in a 33-3400lb sedan

The Si has more UP side to it - is cheaper across the board and he ALREADY owns it

I have yet to see people blowing their motors with these blowers and Flash Pro makes it near impossible to get a crappy tune as the market has people like Vit being an email away

He says he is BORED with the car...at 170-180whp a jump to 300-350whp would certainly break the boredom up and still maintain solid reliability and emissions compliance

But that makes too much sense of course
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:18 PM   #54 (permalink)
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^ I was bored with my Si until I added a supercharger
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:30 PM   #55 (permalink)
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^ I was bored with my Si until I added a supercharger


FA5 + blower =
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:34 PM   #56 (permalink)
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im lost ur saying ur young ur going to get ur permit, but yet u have a wife with a 11' si coupe and u built a 5.0 mustang with 400whp
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:53 PM   #57 (permalink)
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im lost ur saying ur young ur going to get ur permit, but yet u have a wife with a 11' si coupe and u built a 5.0 mustang with 400whp
Ah lol, that was a joke lol
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:55 PM   #58 (permalink)
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**** this thread I'm buying an Evo and throwing a 60mm turbo on it.

I'm out peace
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