Honda Civic Si or Toyota Scion

[walrusneck]

Originally Posted by dragonitti

The whole "lower performance from the factory" thing is so minute between an SI and tC, that's it's really nothing to flinch over. Again, we are not talking about a ZR1 and a tC.

naw, id have to disagree. Iv agreed with everything you've said up till now except for that. Tc's are nice cars and i was seriously shopping for one before i decided on the si, and alot of my friends have them. But stock for stock, theres a big difference in performance. Modded/boosted/bolt on have already been discussed, but Iv driven multiple stock tc's hard, my friends have driven my stock si hard, and we all agree there is a big performance difference. (not just straights but twisties also)

[w00t692]

Yup, like i said earlier, suspension wise, night and day difference.

[Nakagaki]

Stock 2009 Tc is what like 160HP?

Stock 2009 Si is what 200HP?


Pretty big difference, unless the Si weights like 1000 pounds more.

[dragonitti]

Originally Posted by w00t692

um yes. But you only need a bottom end.

sub 2500 for a bottom end... Even cheaper if you're getting stroker because it doesn't need anything in it.

And it's not very expensive because you can resell your k20 bottom end

How much is the stroker for the k24?

Originally Posted by penguin0123

So I guess F1 drivers are all ricers. They rev their "stock (ie, from factory/workshed)" engines all the time to redline.

Michael Schumacher, you are a lousy ricer.

Seriously dude....that was a dumb rebuttal.

Originally Posted by penguin0123

So you'd consider 1 sec difference minute. Ok.

SI Good driver = what 14.8-14.9
tC Good driver = 15.1-15.2

Difference of 0.3 sec

SI Normal driver = what 15.2-15.4
tC Normal driver = 15.5-15.7

Difference of 0.3 sec

[dragonitti]

Originally Posted by walrusneck

naw, id have to disagree. Iv agreed with everything you've said up till now except for that. Tc's are nice cars and i was seriously shopping for one before i decided on the si, and alot of my friends have them. But stock for stock, theres a big difference in performance. Modded/boosted/bolt on have already been discussed, but Iv driven multiple stock tc's hard, my friends have driven my stock si hard, and we all agree there is a big performance difference. (not just straights but twisties also)

Would that happen to be track runs, are strickly street? What kind of times you guys ran when at the track? It's fine if you disagree with that point. We have our opinions.

I've drove the SI stock, and couldn't get past the whole waiting till 4k for VTEC. They should have had VTEC engage a lot sooner. I don't even wait that long for my turbo to spool. Full boost at 2500rpms on my old setup.

Originally Posted by Nakagaki

Stock 2009 Tc is what like 160HP?

Stock 2009 Si is what 200HP?


Pretty big difference, unless the Si weights like 1000 pounds more.

Races are not won with HP alone. Especially crank hp.

[Nakagaki]

Races are not won with HP alone. Especially crank hp.

Your right, but it's a giant factor you can't ignore. Either way stock vs stock, the Si wins hands down, on drag or track.

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Originally Posted by dragonitti

Oh no, not you in particular. I was just speaking in general about mag times. For the most part I would go as far as saying that 9 out of 10 cars have slower mag times than they do in the hands of the consumer. I would imagine that a lot of guys have an SI also due to its history. And solely bought the car based on that, along with asthetic looks that pleased them.

Well, we damn sure know the SI isn't one of those 9/10 cars you speak of. Not even close. Boggles me how 0-60 can vary by 1.0 seconds over all of the different sources (6.3-7.3)

[liquidr1]

Wow, i cant believe this thread is still going on.

[dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Nakagaki

Your right, but it's a giant factor you can't ignore. Either way stock vs stock, the Si wins hands down, on drag or track.

1/4 mile should, road course it should, 1/8th mile....not a hands down victory there. But again, this is stock cars, and I can't exactly see myself being taken seriously driving a stock car to a race track. Unless I'm in a sports car.

Originally Posted by SilentBob420BMFJ

Well, we damn sure know the SI isn't one of those 9/10 cars you speak of. Not even close. Boggles me how 0-60 can vary by 1.0 seconds over all of the different sources (6.3-7.3)

Yeah, can't really trust mags times. You just have to get out there and run the car yourself and find it's sweet spot.

[b.rock]

Originally Posted by mikochu

you tell me do things i'm done runnin'

hahahahaha gi joe

[penguin0123]

Originally Posted by dragonitti

Seriously dude....that was a dumb rebuttal.

Pry tell, why is it dumb? I merely showed you how ludicrous your "definition" is.


You know why you chose to define "stock v stock" as rice? I'll tell you why: you know stock Si > stock tc, so instead of owning up to it, you try to discredit the comparison by making up definitions.

[Fishstix]

Originally Posted by ElJugete

I had this idiot kid come up to me and say that his friend's Scions are faster than the Si. Now my question is do you honestly think that a TC with all bolt-ons can take an Si with bolt-ons or even a stock Si? Let me know your honest opinions.

No.

My honest opinion is that I hate the tC. I don't like the Si either, though. What I hate more than the both of them is people who talk up cars that they don't even own. "My friend's...."

[taffy07si]

Originally Posted by liquidr1

Wow, i cant believe this thread is still going on.

QFT x 1 gazillion

[iCIVICi]

haha...ok i used to have one...and to answer that question....you can most def beat a tC...they have a lot of TQ but youll still pull away

[iamchris]

Don't think this has been posted yet and honestly I didn't even want to get involved in this argument because its stupid. The TC is not a bad car when done right. But generally all you see is young girls driving the car. That doesn't mean its a bad car, it just has a bad rep. But this argument has gone really sideways. We established a stock si vs stock tc si wins. We established bolt on vs bolt on si wins. Now we're into the argument of what happens when you have an ass load of money to dump into a car. This is a ricer argument, because everyone knows if you have a lot of money any car can be the faster car.

Anyways just thought I'd post this because no one has posted it, I know AJP has a bad rep but its interesting none the less.

HART's Redline Time Attack Summary | All Japanese Performance

So before 2008 the Honda si held the best record, and 2009 they're coming back to hopefully take that number 1 slot again.

[SennaHonda]

Originally Posted by iamchris

Now we're into the argument of what happens when you have an ass load of money to dump into a car.

That's easy, you dump your $20,000.00 car and get something faster.

[Nakagaki]

Well said, IAMCHRIS

[dualdiagnosis]

Originally Posted by iCIVICi

haha...ok i used to have one...and to answer that question....you can most def beat a tC...they have a lot of TQ but youll still pull away

Give me a break man. 160 lb/ft of torque is not a lot. You guys act like there is a huge difference between the Si and Tc in the torque department.

[liquidr1]

Originally Posted by dragonitti

Would that happen to be track runs, are strickly street? What kind of times you guys ran when at the track? It's fine if you disagree with that point. We have our opinions.

I've drove the SI stock, and couldn't get past the whole waiting till 4k for VTEC. They should have had VTEC engage a lot sooner. I don't even wait that long for my turbo to spool. Full boost at 2500rpms on my old setup.






Races are not won with HP alone. Especially crank hp.

Wow, thats cool, because a stock Si vtec doesnt engage until 5600 rpm. U sure youve driven an Si.

[w00t692]

^^ it's 5800 rpms.