putting a custom turbo kit together

[itsjdm]

i have a 08 si coupe. I am braking it in, but in the mean time i want to start building my custom turbo kit so when its broken in i can start my installation. I am looking to make anything over 300whp ill be happy. I dont want to big of a turbo so i hit lag like theres no 2mrw, but with 320whp will be awesome. I am possible the stock motor can handle this. What turbo should i go with and what are some of the supporting mods i should use?? and a hondata reflash is a good way to go as well if i am correct?

[NIGHTHAWKSI]

hondata reflash wont work.
greddy turbo kit wont get you that much hp...i know you didnt mention it, just throwing it out there...
there are 2 complete custom motor builds and turbo builds going on in this forum...both are finding that a reliable tuning solution is the largest setback.

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by NIGHTHAWKSI

hondata reflash wont work.
greddy turbo kit wont get you that much hp...i know you didnt mention it, just throwing it out there...
there are 2 complete custom motor builds and turbo builds going on in this forum...both are finding that a reliable tuning solution is the largest setback.

To be perfectly honest, finding a reliable tuning solution is by no means the largest setback. In fact, it is really not a setback at all. It would have been easier if Hondata had a PnP programmable EMS but since they don't, then that just means some other programmable EMS needs to be adapted.

I'll be using MoTeC and 07CivicMD will be using Haltech. From my experience thus far, MoTeC has been extremely helpful in answering questions.

The largest setback thus far, and I'm sure 07CivicMD would probably agree, has been waiting on parts. I'm still waiting on a few parts that were ordered 6 months ago...

To the OP...How much are you looking to spend? The Greddy turbo kit is inexpensive and will get you a nice bump in power over stock and close to 300whp. So far, it has proven to be a reliable system but does have a limitation in terms of upgradability down the road if you want to increase power.

[NIGHTHAWKSI]

but until that tuning is installed in your car, it cant really be called reliable. i am by no means a ECU tuner, i would have no idea where to start. but teh fact that there is no EMS on teh market that can be bought specifically for teh SI, leads me to beleive there is a reason why....a little difficult? too many problems to work around?

BTW...what parts you waiting on? id love to see that build thread finished....

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by NIGHTHAWKSI

but until that tuning is installed in your car, it cant really be called reliable. i am by no means a ECU tuner, i would have no idea where to start. but teh fact that there is no EMS on teh market that can be bought specifically for teh SI, leads me to beleive there is a reason why....a little difficult? too many problems to work around?

BTW...what parts you waiting on? id love to see that build thread finished....

I'd hardly say that MoTeC and Haltech are not reliable. They offer a lot more features and have been proven time and time again. I'll probably be flamed for this, but the Hondata K-Pro is less reliable and does not offer anywhere near the features of MoTeC or Haltech.

Truth be told, you can install any Programmable EMS (PEMS) into the newer Civics and they will work. There is however two limitations. The first is because of the Drive By Wire (DBW) and the second is because of the introduction of the Controller Area Network (CAN).

To date, there have been several companies that overcame this problem by converting to a cable based throttle and running aftermarket gauges. This is expensive and will work, but the problem is that you will constantly have a check engine light and DTCs. The other concern is communications with other CAN based devices in the car.

With that being said, several aftermarket PEMS companies already have a proven solution to overcome the DBW limitation. As for CAN, that is a different animal. Even though the CAN protocol is a standard, each manufacturer implements the protocol slightly different. What that means is if you want a true standalone PEMS, then it will also require deciphering Honda's CAN protocol and programming the standalone mimic that communication (BTW, CAN was introduced in the 2006 model year and did not become 100% CAN based until the 2008 model year).

So what is the solution to installing a PEMS? At this point in time, it would seem that the best approach would be to install a PEMS that supports DBW in a parallel setup. The PEMS can receive the signals from the sensors, mirror those signals and output to the stock ECM so it gets what it needs for the CAN devices, and using the PEMS to drive all of the engine stuff.

I'd love to see my build thread completed as well, but it is still a few months out from being finished. The parts that I am waiting on are from another company that I care not to name. Both myself and RedShift have been in constant contact so hopefully, the remaining parts will be received soon.

[07CivicMD]

I completely agree with Blue's quotes above. Both solutions above have worked on DBW cars for several years. Swift has been using Haltech with DBW on IS300 since 2001 and has complete success with Tuning. He currently has some of the highest output IS300 on the market and currently working on creating a turbo kit with the baseline Haltech F10x.

I also agree with Blue's quote on part that are aviabable for our cars are limited. Most of my parts are in, but waiting for the last head work to be completed and the bottom is completed. Know the fabrication beings!! Turbo Exhaust, intake and etc. I have no doubt that both mine and Blue's car will be monsters and hope to prove this devices will tune our car with no issues.

Blue.. Sorry to hear your still waiting for parts. It's been a long time and can't wait for both cars to be complete!!!

Haltech

• The Haltech E8 ECU is an ECU capable of controlling sequential injection on 2 and 4 cylinder with semi sequential 6 and 8 cylinder applications. With 8 channels capable of controlling injection and ignition duties, the E8 can support most modern engines with multi-coil ignition systems, as well as conventional distributor ignition systems.In addition to controlling fuel and spark, the E8 can control various auxiliary engine functions.
• Stepper motor and BAC/IAC closed loop Idle Control
• Soft cut rev limiter
• Closed loop boost
• O2 sensor closed loop mixture control
• On board data logging (up to 200 samples per second)
• User definable mapping points
• Tuning via TPS with Manifold pressure correction - Ideal for those multi-throttle body turbo cars such as, GTiR Pulsars and GTR Skylines.
• Numerous correction maps to ensure smooth drivability under varying operating conditions Windows Software
• Control of fuel injection on modified engines
• Conversion from carburetion to fuel injection
• Race and rally applications of all description
• Design and development purposes
• Educational use by universities and technical colleges
• Original equipment in cars and motorcycles

[Mike@ML-Works]

My first question is how much do you know about forced induction? As the above have stated with tuning, knowledge is going to be essential for building a successful turbo setup.

[rcracin13]

supercharger + nitrous ftw. less hassle. supercharger for daily and nitrous for a little more fun when needed/wanted. if you're not tracking your car, 300whp is useless anyways

[SoCal07Si]

so is k-pro just hating on the Si's or what?

THeres millions to be made and they dont want 'em

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by SoCal07Si

so is k-pro just hating on the Si's or what?

THeres millions to be made and they dont want 'em

Selling reflashes is considered a cash cow business. More profit is made there in comparison to selling a PEMS that an end user can tune on their own.

K-Pro supports neither DBW or CAN. If our cars did not have these two things, then we would have had K-Pro a long time long ago with little or no hassle installing.

DBW and CAN are not going away so Hondata has to figure out a solution that will work and allow them to use the same hardware on different platforms.

People with the newer S2000 cars are running into the same problem but from what I understand AEM recently released their EMS for that application and several people are using it now.