FI idea

[BigMoney8481]

I just logged on solely to post this question. Would it be possible to have a procharger/turbo charger all in the same until? I know a procharger is a turbo that works solely off of a pulley system attached to the crankshaft. A turbocharger is a turbo that works solely from the exhaust gases produced from combustion. Would it be possible to have a turbo that was belt driven at low RPM's and then driven from the exhaust gases once the engine started to get into the higher RPM's? In my mind all that one would need to make this work would be some creative exhaust plumbing to the turbo, an EMS, and a pulley that worked off of a clutch system that engaged once the exhaust began doing more work than the crankshaft; a clutch system along the lines of ones found on A/C compressors.

Any ideas / comments would be appreciated.

[sh33t_0f_p4p3r]

its been done

[Civicn33b]

i think it would take hella money to pull it off let alone 2,000-3,000 for an EMS like MoTec or the Haltech unit... with enough money you can do anything...

[Skyline4life]

Can always do DEI..



But on a serious note, because the internet is serious business..

Its called 'twin charged' the most known car to do this is the rally-spec Lancia Delta S4. The method of turbocharging and supercharging an engine is referred to as twin charging. This technology is very rarely used due to the fact that most racing restricts to one means of forced induction, and rarely on road cars as its benefits lie mostly in the realm of boost curve fine tuning (quicker boost response) and allowing for said with the use of a freer flowing turbine/housing spec on the turbo to make it more efficient (or less inefficient, compared to the tighter housing needed to minimize lag) at higher rpm.

[firmhonda]

I wish I would have saved it, but at SEMA last year a shop had a setup of twin turbo + supercharger.. That thing was sweet.

BTW, am I wrong in assuming that this "procharger" is a supercharger? That's all it seems like to me.. A centrifugal supercharger.

[Highrev1]

New VW in Europe is twin charged

VW's supercharged turbo engine - Autoblog

[BigMoney8481]

Originally Posted by firmhonda

am I wrong in assuming that this "procharger" is a supercharger? That's all it seems like to me.. A centrifugal supercharger.

there is the general supercharger type that is made for our cars that replaces the intake manifold and then there is the procharger i guess it is called. I've seen them on V8's. It looks just like a traditional ball bearing turbo but belt driven instead of off the exhaust manifold.


I've heard of twin charging but that method uses two separate units (or at least I thought it did) I was talking about having the exhaust manifold and the belt drive the same unit. Each being utilized at the time when each respective one would be most beneficial.

[BigMoney8481]

Originally Posted by Highrev1

New VW in Europe is twin charged

VW's supercharged turbo engine - Autoblog

This is basically what i was thinking about but again only one unit.

[firmhonda]

well here's a picture of a centrifugal supercharger:



In your description it seems as though that's what you're describing. The only thing that gets me is it seems like you're talking about combining the two into one unit, correct? I personally don't see how that would be done. I mean, You could have the two combine via piping right before the intake manifold, but I don't see a way to basically have one thing serve the purpose of both. Especially since by design the intake and exhaust are going to be on the opposite sides of the engine. That means to combine them you would have to have the piping run around to the side of the engine so that the two could meet, which would be less efficient than just twin charging and having the piping meet just before the intake manifold.

I'm not going to lie, I'm a bit confused by what you're saying here. Elaborate? Maybe a little ms paint fun? lol.

[Mike@ML-Works]

Yes it can be done, its been done, and its a waste 80% of the time its done.

[Ihockey1]

I think he saying that it would be cool if the procharger could be set up in a way that at low rpms it would run like a supercharger, but once the car reaches a set point, at higher rpms then it would run off the exhaust gases like a turbo. So pretty much its one unit that is connected to the intake manifold and has plumbing from the exhaust manifold so that it can run like a turbo after it reaches a certain rpm range. Once it reaches that rpm range then there should be system in places that allows for the supercharger system to disengage so that the turbo can take over. After typing all that it still doesn't make sense entirely, and seems too complicated too imagine, but it would be a cool setup if it could be done.

[Mike@ML-Works]

Originally Posted by Ihockey1

I think he saying that it would be cool if the procharger could be set up in a way that at low rpms it would run like a supercharger..

I figured thats what he meant, but I dont know why you would want to do that. Superchargers, especially on these cars have no torque, centrifugal or twin screw.

[firmhonda]

AHHH, I see. Yeah, I don't think that would be a very good setup at all. I mean, whether or not you disengage the the procharger you're still going to have the parisitic loss due to it being belt driven, so if anything you'll just hamper the results that you would normally get from the turbocharger.

It seems like it would be a much better idea to go with a twin turbo setup and just have them both running low boost, that way you get great low end power and still have higher psi at higher rpm's. The only thing that would get in your way is how insane it is to twin turbo a car that has an 11:1 CR.. you wouldn't be running for long, that's for sure.

[firmhonda]

Originally Posted by Mike@ML-Works

I figured thats what he meant, but I dont know why you would want to do that. Superchargers, especially on these cars have no torque, centrifugal or twin screw.

The low Tq aside, I wouldn't do it just because I think that it's a horrible idea to supercharge a fwd car. It seems like it's nothing more than a way to make understeer sound really cool.

[Wreckless06si]

This was at the last dyno day I was at. Twin charged Legacy Wagon.