Programmable Engine Management Systems: Wiring Diagrams/Functions/Limitations

[blueroadster]

Background:
I am putting together an Excel spreadsheet that captures the wiring details when installing a Programmable Engine Management System (PEMS) on the 2006+ Civics. I have the pinout descriptions for the stock Engine Control Module (ECM) (details on the stock ECM can be found in this thread) already populated and am looking to acquire more information to complete the spreadsheet and this post. With that being said, I am hoping to receive input on the following:

1. A concise list of PEMSs that have an application available for the 2006+ Civic (information to be incorporated into this post).
2. A concise list of PEMSs that are adapted/being adapted for the 2006+ Civic (information to be incorporated into this post).
3. A concise list of PEMSs that are in development for the 2006+ Civic (information to be incorporated into this post).
4. For each PEMS, a description of the engine management functions provided/limitations when using on the 2006+ Civic (information to be incorporated into this post).
5. For each PEMS, a pinout description and wiring diagrams/instructions (information to be incorporated into the spreadsheet and later added to this post).
6. An accessories list to detail information on additional sensors that can be added to most of the below PEMSs.

Contributors:
The following people provided valuable content that resulted in the information included in this post:

1. 07CivicMD
2. blueroadster
3. lukits01

Stock Engine Wiring Harness:



Stock ECM Connections:

Connector A (White):



Connector B (Grey):



Connector C (Green):

PEMSs Available: AEM F/IC, Greddy e-Manage Ultimate...Others?

AEM F/IC:
Overview: The F/IC gives users with OBD-II race vehicles and non-factory forced induction systems the ability to retard ignition and deliver accurate amounts of fuel without the need for outdated FMUs or “boost hiding” controllers. This system works parallel to the factory ECU preventing tuning limitations due to complex factory timing patterns.

Engine Management Functions:
Information Needed.

Limitations:
Information Needed.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
The below images include extractions from the Excel spreadsheet that I put together from reading the AEM F/IC installation manual. I am hoping that someone that has the AEM F/IC installed on their 2006+ Civic can verify the information. Specifically, I am not sure about connections 1, 13, and 16 on the 24 pin connector.

Greddy e-Manage Ultimate:
Overview: The GReddy e-manage Ultimate is as close to a stand-alone management system as you can get while maintaining the best features of a "piggy-back" engine management; an economical price, the usage of existing sensors, the ability to easily alter factory settings and not having to tune from scratch. But unlike the original e-manage, the Ultimate is more refined, requiring specific application usage (which we are constantly adding application updates that you can download FREE via greddy.com, Tech WebPages.) The benefit of this is, the included PC-based USB "Ultimate Support Tool" allows for even finer tuning capabilities, improved flexibility in fuel & ignition control and adds impressive data-logging qualities to make tuning quicker and easier. The increased number of input and output ports of the Ultimate, along with new built-in adapters add many new options to the unit. In addition to standard e-manage airflow-based adjustments, the Ultimate version includes new and upgraded features. The Parameter Set-up, tab menu format of the Ultimate has improved direct Map control for adding and subtracting Fuel and Ignition. The ability to switch between 2 preset tuning Maps (i.e. Street or Race program) via externally mounted toggle switches. There are Maps for Individual cylinder adjustment for both Fuel and Ignition. There are also options to convert injection and ignition systems (i.e. group or sequential injection and group or individual fire ignition.) An Airflow Output Map option even allows for airflow meter elimination. And when used with a wideband A/F Meter, the Air Fuel Target Map can self-tune an Injector base tuning Map, to speed up initial tuning. There are also built-in Boost, Rev and Speed Limiter-Cut features. To create super smooth operation, there are various fine tuning Correction Maps to adjust for Throttle Acceleration, Vehicle Speed, Water Temp, Intake Temp, Auto Trans Shift, Anti Engine Stall, and Idle. To further aid in tuning, e-manage Ultimate’s improved integrated Monitoring, Map Tracing and Datalogging features far exceed any other piggyback controller on the market. Even when not connected to the software, 8 channels of datalogging (at 20msec intervals) can be recorded and stored to be reviewed later. With the Support Tool connected, over 30 channels can be covered. Other new features include: Improved RPM recognition, Warning Settings, Password Protection for individual tuning Maps, NVCS (Nissan), VTEC (Honda), O2 Feed-back, Clean Fouled Plugs, and numerous others in future updates. Ideal for optimizing and fine-tuning for performance products like Exhaust, Air Intake, Intercoolers, Boost Controllers, and Turbochargers, the e-manage Ultimate fills the gaps between conventional piggyback and expensive stand-alone engine managements. All installation and tuning should only be made by a trained technician with proper air/fuel monitoring tools. (Some or all functions may not be compatible with some applications).

Engine Management Functions:
Information Needed.

Limitations:
Information Needed.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
The below images include extractions from the Excel spreadsheet that I put together from reading the Greddy e-Manage Ultimate installation manual. I am hoping that someone that has the Greddy e-Manage installed on their 2006+ Civic can verify the information, identify what wires are not used, and fill in the areas with question marks.

PEMSs Adapted/Being Adapted: AEM EMS (Being Adapted), Greddy V-Manage (Being Adapted), Haltech E8v2 (Being Adapted), Hondata K-Pro (Adapted), MoTeC MX00 (Adapted), Vishnu Exede (Being Adapted)...Others?

AEM EMS (Being Adapted):
They have been working on the 2006+ Civic for several years. On a positive note, I have heard that they have an offering for the 2006 S2000 that has DWB and is CAN based like our cars.

Engine Management Functions:
Information Needed.

Limitations:
Information Needed.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
Information Needed.

Greddy V-Manage (Being Adapted):
Overview: The V-Manage, Variable Valve Timing Controller was designed by GReddy engineers to take advantage of some of the modern technology OE Manufactures* are now commonly incorporating into their latest engines. Based on the intuitive controls, datalogging and Maps of the e-manage Ultimate software, a tuner with a laptop computer, can now alter the factory’s ECU control of valve-timing at any RPM and load to optimize power output and fuel economy. However by purchasing GReddy's application specific V-manage Kits, you can simply "plug & play." V-manage Kits, include the V-manage, CD software, Plug-in Harness with adapter, and Pre-programmed MAP to optimise cam timing for increase horsepower, toque, and boost response.

Engine Management Functions:
Information Needed.

Limitations:
Information Needed.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
Information Needed.

Haltech E8v2 (Being Adapted):

Engine Management Functions:
Information Needed.

Limitations:
Information Needed.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
The below images include extractions from the Excel spreadsheet that I put together from reading the Haltech E8 wiring sheet. I am hoping that someone that has the Haltech E8v2 installed on their 2006+ Civic can verify the information.

Hondata K-Pro (Adapted):

Engine Management Functions:
Information Needed. I've heard that it has been done, but have been unable to acquire any details.

Limitations:
Information Needed. I've heard that it has been done, but have been unable to acquire any details.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
Information Needed. I've heard that it has been done, but have been unable to acquire any details.

MoTeC MX00 (Adapted):

Engine Management Functions:
Everything but the kitchen sink.

Limitations:
CEL always on, VSA disabled...Working to resolve these minor issues.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
The below images include extractions from the Excel spreadsheet that I put together from reading the MoTeC installation manual. I am hoping that someone that has the MoTeC MX00 installed on their 2006+ Civic can verify the information.



Notes Regarding the Below Pin Connections:

1. For WB02 Sensor: Any single auxiliary, injector, or ignition output can be used for the heater control wire.
2. For WB02 Sensor: Connect to power source (same wire as A26 after the "12V From ECU Relay").
3. Outputs marked with * do not have a recirculation diode; reference the section on Output Specifications in the User Manual for more details.

Vishnu Exede (Being Adapted):

Engine Management Functions:
Information Needed.

Limitations:
Information Needed.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
Information Needed.

PEMSs In Development: Hondata PEMS (Actual Name Not Known), Hydra EMS...Others?

Hondata PEMS (Actual Name Not Known):
They own two 2006+ Civics and have been working on the PEMS for several years. Confirmed details and release dates are not known since Hondata has a "don't tell" kind of policy.

Engine Management Functions:
Information Needed.

Limitations:
Information Needed.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
Information Needed.

Hydra EMS:
Mentioned that they are working on a solution for the 2006+ Civic with an anticipated release date in the June/July 2008 timeframe.

Engine Management Functions:
Information Needed.

Limitations:
Information Needed.

Pinout Description/Wiring Diagram/Instructions:
Information Needed.

Accessories List:

Bosch LSU 4.X Wideband O2 Sensor:

[07CivicMD]

E8 Wiring Diagram

I only know of one limitation for the Haltech EXv2 ECU is knock detection.

[blueroadster]

Update on the modification of the stock wiring harness:



[Edit] Need to update diagram as what was presented is not accurate as several lines require splices instead. [/Edit]

[lukits01]

hey blueroadster
I thought I'd add a bit of info with what Im doing
Similar approach to you.

Im wiring in a Motec M400 in piggyback using boomslang harness
I've cut the following:
4*injectors
4*igntion
VTC (rewire to ground switching, while Honda OEM is power switching)
VTEC
To replace the lost drive signal for the OEM ECU, I've wired in resistors
All other inputs for the MOTEC are "T" into the original loom using the boomslang harness

The car runs and I've had it tuned it on the dyno
The problem Im trying to deal with now is, the OEM ECU is throwing Check Engine Light and VSA light still. Any ideas how to solve this?
It doesn't affect how the car runs, but it gets a bit annoying after awhile.

[Mr Bigs]

Originally Posted by blueroadster

Cool...I will be doing the same and would like to compare notes at some point. It would be nice to completely replace the stock ECM but doing so would take more time and cost a lot of money trying to figure out Honda's implementation of the CAN protocol.

The one limitation with the setup would be that the stock ECM will likely trigger the check engine light and throw some codes since it won't see all of the sensors and control the running state of the engine. I'm hoping that some of the unused outputs can be used to send data to the stock ECM to keep it happy. I have heard also heard that almost every Dodge Viper running the MoTeC uses the same kind of configuration. I'll have to check those boards as well to see how the wiring was done and if they were able to keep the stock ECM happy at the same time without triggering codes or a CEL.

Sound like diodes would have to be used to allow the oem ecu to see certain things but not be able to reply with parameter adjustments. The only othyer thing is at some point certain inputs need to be spoofed.

[blueroadster]

Awesome...Thanks for the reply. I realise that I need to go back and fix some of what I mentioned regarding the wiring (several connections need to be spliced instead). Are you still using the DBW unit or did you convert to cable? I'm planning to retain the DBW stuff but am waiting on MoTeC to provide a wiring schematic on how to connect.

That was a good idea using resistors going back to the stock ECM. I was thinking about doing the same so the ECM would not trigger a CEL. I've read elsewhere that others have simply removed the CEL bulb or wire so it does not illuminate (that may be the only option, but I'll look at the electrical manual to see if I can find another solution).

Are all of your interior gauges and controls still operational or did you go with an aftermarket cluster? I'm hoping that the stuff will still work, but if not I'll probably end up going with the PCS D200.

Originally Posted by lukits01

hey blueroadster
I thought I'd add a bit of info with what Im doing
Similar approach to you.

Im wiring in a Motec M400 in piggyback using boomslang harness
I've cut the following:
4*injectors
4*igntion
VTC (rewire to ground switching, while Honda OEM is power switching)
VTEC
To replace the lost drive signal for the OEM ECU, I've wired in resistors
All other inputs for the MOTEC are "T" into the original loom using the boomslang harness

The car runs and I've had it tuned it on the dyno
The problem Im trying to deal with now is, the OEM ECU is throwing Check Engine Light and VSA light still. Any ideas how to solve this?
It doesn't affect how the car runs, but it gets a bit annoying after awhile.

[lukits01]

Originally Posted by blueroadster

Awesome...Thanks for the reply. I realise that I need to go back and fix some of what I mentioned regarding the wiring (several connections need to be spliced instead). Are you still using the DBW unit or did you convert to cable? I'm planning to retain the DBW stuff but am waiting on MoTeC to provide a wiring schematic on how to connect.

That was a good idea using resistors going back to the stock ECM. I was thinking about doing the same so the ECM would not trigger a CEL. I've read elsewhere that others have simply removed the CEL bulb or wire so it does not illuminate (that may be the only option, but I'll look at the electrical manual to see if I can find another solution).

Are all of your interior gauges and controls still operational or did you go with an aftermarket cluster? I'm hoping that the stuff will still work, but if not I'll probably end up doing with the PCS D200.

Gave you a more detailed reply through PM man.

In a nutshell, the stock ECU is running the DBW, like the hassport Honda Fit setup, works fine. Dash still works, no functionality lost. Just the annoying CEl on start up. I know for a fact the resistors got rid of the VTEC CEL code, but obviously there's more codes. I was thinking of using the PCS D200 for extra gauges, I got instructions on how to wire up the dash and setup the MOTEC CAN protocol for the D200. It's only 2 wires that need to be connected.

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by lukits01

Gave you a more detailed reply through PM man.

In a nutshell, the stock ECU is running the DBW, like the hassport Honda Fit setup, works fine. Dash still works, no functionality lost. Just the annoying CEl on start up. I know for a fact the resistors got rid of the VTEC CEL code, but obviously there's more codes. I was thinking of using the PCS D200 for extra gauges, I got instructions on how to wire up the dash and setup the MOTEC CAN protocol for the D200. It's only 2 wires that need to be connected.

Cool...I'm glad that it is working great for you minus the CEL and VSA lights. It sounds like those are more just of an annoyance though at this point and can easily be solved.

I had been looking at the D200 for a few weeks now but have yet to pull the trigger. I'll probably order it this week because like you said, it basically just needs the high and low CAN wires from the MoTeC.

What I find interesting though is that you are retaining the stock ECM to run the DBW without issue. The M4 is a lot less expensive but lacks the ability to add the DBW control option. Since that is evidently not necessary, it gives others more options as the M4 is a lot less expensive than the M400.

[blueroadster]

Added PICs of the ECM connectors that were lost in the other thread. I need to redo the text to make the image smaller and more legiable. I will also add the Haltech stuff shortly.

[blueroadster]

I could not tell in the below PIC. How were the CAN and RS232 wires connected?

[lukits01]

I believe the CAN Hi and Lo line goes to that mil spec connector in the centre.
The serial line was not wired, as I have no need for it.
Yea, just delete all redundant posts, I dont mind.

p.s. Looks like somebody has done this with a Kpro
YouTube - Wired in K-pro

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by lukits01

I believe the CAN Hi and Lo line goes to that mil spec connector in the centre.
The serial line was not wired, as I have no need for it.
Yea, just delete all redundant posts, I dont mind.

p.s. Looks like somebody has done this with a Kpro
YouTube - Wired in K-pro

That makes sense. I was just thrown off since I did not see the RS232 connector.

Regarding the K-Pro, that video came from a Hondata dealer based out of Singapore about a month and a half ago. They already have a K-Pro based solution that they sell for the CL7 Honda Accord Euro R JDM Model. The video that they posted was just showing an initial installation on a 06 Civic.

[blueroadster]

Added Haltech E8 details as well as details on the Bosch LSU 4.X wideband 02 sensor.

[soxfan143]

I really wish I understood what you guys are talking about. lol. Sorry for the useless post but I'm really trying to understand this. What excatly do the resistors do in that setup? Is that to trick the ECU into thinking there are sensors there and they are checking out normal?

[nunoctr]

I think you can also use the EFI euro 4 ECU:

Just to set the record straight..........

We are currently doing the first LotHonda K20A conversion utilising the 2007/08 CTR spec engine. This will use the standard engine harness and DBW throttle by using a header adaptor from the CTR to the Euro4.

It will also feature driver adjustable traction control, launch control, self learning lambda and an 8mb data logger which includes steering angle, accelerometers and damper positions.

We won't be keeping the stock ECU at all but we could integrate it if it was to be done with a CTR to keep the original dash functions.

We have done many earlier K20A engines with either Euro1, 4 or 6 wth great success. The JAS CTR in the earlier pictures is a proper Group R rally car with many compromises made. They also use a Digitek digital dash instead fo the stock instruments.

http://www.obr.uk.com/Handbooks/Euro...20handbook.pdf

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by soxfan143

I really wish I understood what you guys are talking about. lol. Sorry for the useless post but I'm really trying to understand this. What excatly do the resistors do in that setup? Is that to trick the ECU into thinking there are sensors there and they are checking out normal?

No worries...I'm trying to organize the information in a manner that is easier to comprehend but if there are questions, please ask like you did.

Basically, resistors are used to produce a voltage drop in the signal. For example, if a sensor outputs a max of 5V across a wire, a resistor can be installed inline on the wire so that the output on the other side is reduced to a max of 3V. Installation of a resistor in this case would be important to trick the ECM if it only likes to see a signal of 3V or less on a particular wire.

[TrueSpeed]

Originally Posted by blueroadster

No worries...I'm trying to organize the information in a manner that is easier to comprehend but if there are questions, please ask like you did.

Basically, resistors are used to produce a voltage drop in the signal. For example, if a sensor outputs a max of 5V across a wire, a resistor can be installed inline on the wire so that the output on the other side is reduced to a max of 3V. Installation of a resistor in this case would be important to trick the ECM if it only likes to see a signal of 3V or less on a particular wire.

haha i wish i could ask like him. but i don't get anything at all... im currently gonna start school on auto tech and hopefully in a few months ill be understanding some what of what you guys are talking about.. sounds very interesting..