5000-6000 bucks ... need help.

Nafunu32 · 05-24-2006, 12:49 AM

Alright... heres the deal. I'm wanting to spend 5000-6000 dollars on MOTOR only... after installation and tuning of everything, Im thinking i'll have around 4500 bucks. This is my only car, my daily driver, and I will take an occasional 4 hour road trip. I want to maintain good gas mileage, yet be fast. I'm looking for low to mid 12s and pushing around 400ish horse power. Turbo seems the way to go, but I'm open for anything cept nitrous.

Dead · 05-24-2006, 01:25 AM

And then you wake up.... No but seriously to be pushing 400hp you will need a lot more than 4.5G. Even with a turbo your looking at what, 250hp. Turbo or supercharger alone will cost about that much installed..probably more

**webby** · 05-24-2006, 02:02 AM

turbo setups for a similar rsx-s setup would be over 5k to get that kind of hp numbers. It's possible to get #'s even into the 500hp range on the rsx motor, but it will be more expensive than that.

For example - a kit for the previous generation SI -
One member put down 297.1 WHP with the kit at 9 psi
and the kit itself runs $4200.00
That is just parts, no labor etc added onto that, and you're still short of the #'s you'd like to put down. Turbo is the way to go though. The main problem right now is tuning abilities on the new civics. If you search around, no one has really cracked the entire ecu yet. Hondata is supposedly half way... but won't release info on any completion.

Nafunu32 · 05-24-2006, 01:12 PM

Hmm... when i said 400ish, I was meaning about 350-450... the jackson racing SC is supposedly supposed to be pushing 300 hp. Thats a 100 hp gain. Those are only what? $3k? A turbo kit wouldnt add 150-200 hp fully tuned with Hondata?

**webby** · 05-24-2006, 01:35 PM

well - no date known for hondata. Hondata alone runs $600 for a reflash, and up to $1600 for the Kpro. It doesn't seem like a reflash is going to be possible, but we don't know yet. That obviously has to factor into your price structure - along with installation costs unless you're doing it yourself.

2RotorMotor · 05-24-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webby

well - no date known for hondata. Hondata alone runs $600 for a reflash, and up to $1600 for the Kpro. It doesn't seem like a reflash is going to be possible, but we don't know yet. That obviously has to factor into your price structure - along with installation costs unless you're doing it yourself.

THe TOV si was reflashed... They said they were able to control the cam timing, vtec and revlimiter... Im almost certain they will come out with a reflash before a kpro is available for the car...

06Fg2 · 05-24-2006, 02:07 PM

Hondata kinda has a reflash that is done. I have been talking to Comptech and I was told that their SC kit should be available in 4-6 weeks. I asked what they will be using for engine management and the gentleman said that they will be hoping to use the Hondata reflash. If anyone does not believe me, I can forward you the email.

**webby** · 05-24-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondata

We only have a reflash for the TSX. Some race vehicles have re-pinned the wiring harness and swapped over to a manual throttle cable.

not exactly a reflash

2RotorMotor · 05-24-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webby

not exactly a reflash

If you download the videos where he talks about the TOV vehicle, you will see that he says we have had great progress with this ecu. We were able to change the vtec engagement to 5k and raise the revlimit to 9k, as well and adjust the cam angles.

Its on the TOV website, its one of the videos they have there posted for the 06 si..

**webby** · 05-24-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2RotorMotor

If you download the videos where he talks about the TOV vehicle, you will see that he says we have had great progress with this ecu. We were able to change the vtec engagement to 5k and raise the revlimit to 9k, as well and adjust the cam angles.

Its on the TOV website, its one of the videos they have there posted for the 06 si..

I'm not arguing with you. I know they can adjust those things. I was just saying that they also got around issues by using a manual throttle cable, and repinning the ecu. It's not like just tossing in a chip and calling it a day.

Here is the info you were talking about on the vtec site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tov website

The 2006 Si's ECU, unfortunately, is not like the earlier K-series units. As far as we know, it is completely new. Even worse, the engine management system now incorporates both a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) and MAF (mass air flow) sensor - most likely in an effort to better control emissions. This meant that Hondata needed to not only crack the new ECU (something they seem to get quicker and quicker at), but they needed to figure out Honda's control scheme for fueling using both the MAP and MAF sensors. So far, they have been successful on one of these two tasks. Fueling has not been cracked to date, but Hondata can now control everything else - cam timing, ignition timing, rev limiters, VTEC, etc.

skittleslegend · 05-24-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2RotorMotor

If you download the videos where he talks about the TOV vehicle, you will see that he says we have had great progress with this ecu. We were able to change the vtec engagement to 5k and raise the revlimit to 9k, as well and adjust the cam angles.

Its on the TOV website, its one of the videos they have there posted for the 06 si..

They didn't exactly reflash it. They re-pinned it. Doug (the co-owner of Hondata) said so. They've had a bit of progress but also some setbacks. They'll have something figured out before the year's end though.

2RotorMotor · 05-24-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webby

I'm not arguing with you. I know they can adjust those things. I was just saying that they also got around issues by using a manual throttle cable, and repinning the ecu. It's not like just tossing in a chip and calling it a day.

Here is the info you were talking about on the vtec site.

I wasn't arguing, I was just stating what was on vid. He said reflash but I didn't know about the repining and stuff. Im just wondering as to how they got around to elimating the DBW without sending the ecu into limpmode.... Its a main system so Im pretty sure the ecu checks on that as soon as you crank the car.. And without the dbw, they don't have tps, which is crucial.. not really crucial, but you can have some drivability problems.

skittleslegend · 05-24-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nafunu32

Hmm... when i said 400ish, I was meaning about 350-450... the jackson racing SC is supposedly supposed to be pushing 300 hp. Thats a 100 hp gain. Those are only what? $3k? A turbo kit wouldnt add 150-200 hp fully tuned with Hondata?

Uh...you do realize you're going to have to compromise. And you're not going to get a $3K JSRC. You can get the STREET KIT, which is about $3K, but it's only 250hp. The RACE KIT is about 300hp and just over $4K. And if you go turbo (right now, anyway), you're looking at custom and you're looking at upgrading your fuel system and installing an intercooler. You're not doing all of this PLUS install, PLUS tuning for $4500. You're barely doing it at $6K, depending on the quality of the parts.

And if you're going to be attempting to run in the 12's, get (as you put) great gas mileage, 400hp AND have it as a daily driver, you're going to want to invest more than $4500. Honda's are damn stout, but they're not LS1's...your engine will last for a few years, which may be enough time for you, but after the abuse you're more than likely going to put on your engine, it's going to crap out sooner or later.

supersly_jones · 05-24-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2RotorMotor

THe TOV si was reflashed... They said they were able to control the cam timing, vtec and revlimiter... Im almost certain they will come out with a reflash before a kpro is available for the car...

not shure if mentioned but i'm pretty shure they lost function of speedometer and a few other things...but i don't remember

skittleslegend · 05-24-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supersly_jones

not shure if mentioned but i'm pretty shure they lost function of speedometer and a few other things...but i don't remember

That was HASport's swapped Si. The K24/Z3 hybrid isn't compatable with the CAN BUS of the 06's.

Nafunu32 · 05-24-2006, 07:16 PM

Taking it to a performance shop. A guy that is introducing me to the owner said for 6k i would be in the 12s and around 400 hp. guess i'll have to see. Most likely getting a custom turbo set up through Polk Performance.

**sickyute** · 05-24-2006, 08:21 PM

the ToV car was not repinned. I brought up this topic on the ToV site after reading it on here in a different thread some time ago and the guys on ToV said it was reflashed. The didn't repin or hard wire, or lose guage function and so on. Skittles u were in the ToV thread to. anyway it's not important..but we'll see a reflash sooner than later.

2RotorMotor · 05-25-2006, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickyute

the ToV car was not repinned. I brought up this topic on the ToV site after reading it on here in a different thread some time ago and the guys on ToV said it was reflashed. The didn't repin or hard wire, or lose guage function and so on. Skittles u were in the ToV thread to. anyway it's not important..but we'll see a reflash sooner than later.

Thats what I thought..

**webby** · 05-25-2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickyute

the ToV car was not repinned. I brought up this topic on the ToV site after reading it on here in a different thread some time ago and the guys on ToV said it was reflashed. The didn't repin or hard wire, or lose guage function and so on. Skittles u were in the ToV thread to. anyway it's not important..but we'll see a reflash sooner than later.

I'm not arguing - just posted what their article says.

http://vtec.net/articles/view-articl...&page_number=2

05-24-2006, 12:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
Nafunu32 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 181 iTrader: 0 / 0%	5000-6000 bucks ... need help. Alright... heres the deal. I'm wanting to spend 5000-6000 dollars on MOTOR only... after installation and tuning of everything, Im thinking i'll have around 4500 bucks. This is my only car, my daily driver, and I will take an occasional 4 hour road trip. I want to maintain good gas mileage, yet be fast. I'm looking for low to mid 12s and pushing around 400ish horse power. Turbo seems the way to go, but I'm open for anything cept nitrous.

05-24-2006, 08:21 PM	#17 (permalink)
sickyute MoDiFiEd Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl Age: 27 Posts: 9,444 Marvie iTrader: 12 / 100%	the ToV car was not repinned. I brought up this topic on the ToV site after reading it on here in a different thread some time ago and the guys on ToV said it was reflashed. The didn't repin or hard wire, or lose guage function and so on. Skittles u were in the ToV thread to. anyway it's not important..but we'll see a reflash sooner than later. __________________ Shift when it blinks! http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2640940 FA5 http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2216565 FG2

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05-24-2006, 01:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
Dead Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7 iTrader: 0 / 0%	And then you wake up.... No but seriously to be pushing 400hp you will need a lot more than 4.5G. Even with a turbo your looking at what, 250hp. Turbo or supercharger alone will cost about that much installed..probably more

05-24-2006, 02:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
webby Acorns! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Storage Room B Posts: 13,407 iTrader: 11 / 100%	turbo setups for a similar rsx-s setup would be over 5k to get that kind of hp numbers. It's possible to get #'s even into the 500hp range on the rsx motor, but it will be more expensive than that. For example - a kit for the previous generation SI - One member put down 297.1 WHP with the kit at 9 psi and the kit itself runs $4200.00 That is just parts, no labor etc added onto that, and you're still short of the #'s you'd like to put down. Turbo is the way to go though. The main problem right now is tuning abilities on the new civics. If you search around, no one has really cracked the entire ecu yet. Hondata is supposedly half way... but won't release info on any completion.

05-24-2006, 01:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
Nafunu32 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 181 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Hmm... when i said 400ish, I was meaning about 350-450... the jackson racing SC is supposedly supposed to be pushing 300 hp. Thats a 100 hp gain. Those are only what? $3k? A turbo kit wouldnt add 150-200 hp fully tuned with Hondata?

05-24-2006, 01:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
webby Acorns! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Storage Room B Posts: 13,407 iTrader: 11 / 100%	well - no date known for hondata. Hondata alone runs $600 for a reflash, and up to $1600 for the Kpro. It doesn't seem like a reflash is going to be possible, but we don't know yet. That obviously has to factor into your price structure - along with installation costs unless you're doing it yourself.

05-24-2006, 02:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
06Fg2 Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: West Chester, PA Age: 20 Posts: 2,774 FG Squad Member #15 iTrader: 22 / 96%	Hondata kinda has a reflash that is done. I have been talking to Comptech and I was told that their SC kit should be available in 4-6 weeks. I asked what they will be using for engine management and the gentleman said that they will be hoping to use the Hondata reflash. If anyone does not believe me, I can forward you the email.

05-24-2006, 07:16 PM	#16 (permalink)
Nafunu32 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 181 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Taking it to a performance shop. A guy that is introducing me to the owner said for 6k i would be in the 12s and around 400 hp. guess i'll have to see. Most likely getting a custom turbo set up through Polk Performance.