Creative Minds Needed: Let's Design an Effective Oil Catch Can Setup

blueroadster · 12-21-2007, 06:54 PM

I have played around with different oil catch can setups and have concluded for several reasons that the catch can itself should be placed inline on the hose running from the PCV to the intake manifold. Rather than running hose all over the place, I wanted to keep the implementation simple. It would also be effective and inexpensive. Below are the core components:

Core Component: Husky Mini General Purpose Filter Model HDA704 (available at Home Depot...The part is also sold under the Coleman Powermate brand name). This will function as the oil catch can and it is important since it is sealed and functions as an air filter to catch oil vapor, etc.
Core Component: One Way Check Valve (core specifically if your car is boosted to prevent the positive intake manifold pressure from hitting the PCV where boost could bleed into the crankcase or blow right into the crankcase if the PCV has failed). I have used a PCV based one way check valve with a viton diaphram in the past, but this new configuration will more than likely require the use of a one way brass check valve (likely with a viton diaphram as well).
Other Components: This is where the suggestions are specifically needed.

With the above items in mind, I came up with a rough configuration that would allow for the mini-filter to be installed in the same location as the stock hose running from the PCV to the intake manifold. Here is a PIC:

The stock hose is on the top. The mini-filter is also there with some temporary brass fittings (minus the check valve) to get an idea of the space. The reason for the vertical pipe pieces is to raise the mini-filter up some so that it will fit in the limited space available. The issue with the above PIC however is that the part is now too long. What I was thinking about doing was removing the temporary brass fittings, screwing pipe into the female threads on the mini-filter, bending the pipe to conform and then having male threads on the other end of the pipes. On the PCV side, the pipe would need to have an adapter to screw into the threads so that it could have an adapter attached to connect to the threads where the PCV was connected (granted the PCV itself would need to be removed, but this would be okay if there is a one-way check valve installed inline...It would also give a little more clearance for the part and a secure attachment point...The PCV connection is an M14x1.5mm). On the intake manifold side, the male ends of the pipe coming from the mini-filter would have a one way check valve going to a barb fitting installed so that a hose could run from that barb fitting to the fitting on the intake manifold itself.

Those are my thoughts at this point and I would like to solicit help and feedback to finalize.

Highrev1 · 12-21-2007, 07:06 PM

Ah nice I see you used my suggestions

blueroadster · 12-21-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Ah nice I see you used my suggestions

For the mini-filter yes. The other one that I had was too large. After I bought the mini-filter, it started to make me think of a way to get it to fit in the same location of the stock hose without having to run hose to the oil catch can being installed in another location.

You're suggestion on this little filter was valuable. I am now trying to gather ideas to make it work and fit in the limited space that is available.

***Nathen*** · 12-21-2007, 07:27 PM

It was suggested by a shop teacher in high school to use steel wool inside instead of using a cotton or paper filter element inside. Here is a pic similar to the one my friend still runs on his hatch. I'm not sure on the demensions. Maybe someone with more knowledge can comment on the steel wool idea. It works very well the oil sticks to it like crazy. the steel wool used wasnt the really fine stuff it was very thick.

blueroadster · 12-21-2007, 09:30 PM

You do not want to use steel wool at all as a baffle in the catch can as the steel wool itself quickly rusts and frays. What was shown in the second PIC you posted, and is a good medium to use as a baffle, is a SS scrubbing pad that is used to wash dishes or scrub a grill surface.

***Zeuceone*** · 12-21-2007, 09:39 PM

Interesting.

***Nathen*** · 12-21-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueroadster

You do not want to use steel wool at all as a baffle in the catch can as the steel wool itself quickly rusts and frays. What was shown in the second PIC you posted, and is a good medium to use as a baffle, is a SS scrubbing pad that is used to wash dishes or scrub a grill surface.

ah yea.. maybe i worded wrong but yes you are correct. i think this was some kind of brillo pad?

Mr Bigs · 12-21-2007, 09:44 PM

Here is a nice one I came across Perrin Performance - Oil Catch Can/Overflow Tank

***Nathen*** · 12-21-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueroadster

With the above items in mind, I came up with a rough configuration that would allow for the mini-filter to be installed in the same location as the stock hose running from the PCV to the intake manifold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Bigs

Here is a nice one I came across Perrin Performance - Oil Catch Can/Overflow Tank

It is very nice Mr. Bigs but keeping what Blue said in mind this may be far to big for what he is shooting for.

blueroadster · 12-21-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Bigs

Here is a nice one I came across Perrin Performance - Oil Catch Can/Overflow Tank

That would work as well, but I would like to keep the PCV catch can within a confined space. I did read the link that you provided and that adds more food for thought.

Specifically, the oil catch can plan described this far would be fully functional and would work in an N/A application. In a boosted application, it would also work somewhat in that the check valve would close thereby preventing boost pressure from entering the crankcase. The issue with this however would be that when the engine is under boost, the normal PCV exit for the crankcase ventilation system would be closed (not a good thing). So we would also need a solution to cover boost conditions to allow for the crankcase to continue to be ventilated. A simple solution would to plumb into the exhaust, but the issue with that is that the stock crankcase ventilation system receives metered air that is expected to go through the PCV. If that metered air was constantly sent to the exhaust, then that would confuse the stock ECM.

Maybe a potential solution in a boosted form is to have the PCV connection function as normal (with the catch can) and then integrate a valve that would open only under boost conditions to allow for the exhaust to then serve as a vacuum for the crankcase. These are just some thoughts running through my head at this time and I'd have to say that if we did not have a MAF, then we would probably not have to devise some way of making a system that is simple but yet still works.

blueroadster · 12-21-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathen

It is very nice Mr. Bigs but keeping what Blue said in mind this may be far to big for what he is shooting for.

I've been talking with him on the side. His response was welcome and appreciated.

I would like for this subject to be open so I welcome any ideas that others have or are brainstorming.

***Nathen*** · 12-21-2007, 10:35 PM

Oh alright

vtecmike1 · 12-22-2007, 12:46 AM

are there no effective "store bought" catch cans for our si? i'm looking into getting one before i boost but i have to be honest i have no idea about them. or how to make one.

***Nathen*** · 12-22-2007, 12:50 AM

then just watch this thread. i have a general understanding and they do have good store bought ones. but they are usually large, expensive, and have to me mounted somewhere like the firewall or on a fender. I like blue's idea of making a compact one that doesnt have to be huge but still be functional. i'll be checking back here often to see if my baffle gets used in the final version

***07mugencivic*** · 12-22-2007, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeuceone

Interesting.

vtecmike1 · 12-22-2007, 01:08 AM

guess i got time to wait and watch since im not getting my kit till jan 20ish..

damn u comptech !! for making me wait for

lol i got bored so i figured i'd write a story with smileys.

***Nathen*** · 12-22-2007, 02:15 AM

lol nice story. although i definatly feel bad about you have to wait so long. I dunno which is worse... looking at my kit everyday wishing it was on.... or not having the kit and wishing i had it.... i personally hate looking at mine everyday. like WTF put yourself on my car you pieces! lol.

Mr Bigs · 12-22-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathen

lol nice story. although i definatly feel bad about you have to wait so long. I dunno which is worse... looking at my kit everyday wishing it was on.... or not having the kit and wishing i had it.... i personally hate looking at mine everyday. like WTF put yourself on my car you pieces! lol.

You have an advantage by not having it on,now you can make changes and modifications to over this time as new stuff is approaching the market.

HONDACARE · 12-22-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtecmike1

guess i got time to wait and watch since im not getting my kit till jan 20ish..

i just try to forget i even ordered it

enter801 · 06-12-2008, 12:58 AM

So two things I'm wondering here to the elusive catch can setup. First, if the check valve has positive pressure on the seal side does pressure on the other side not come through for sure? Aren't there some sort of check valves that will seal the one side always and let pressure through the other side no matter what? Second, if the crankcase pressure metered air needs to be recirculated, why not route it to the intake behind the MAF sensor and just plug the hole on the intake manifold?

Another question, does it matter if the valve cover vent has a breather filter on it or does that air need to be recirculated for sure as well. You could run a catch can on that as long as it is routed back to the intake as well, right? The guy who relocated his battery was doing that, I am wondering if he's even catching any oil from the valve cover.

12-21-2007, 06:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
blueroadster Senior Member Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,573 iTrader: 7 / 100%	Creative Minds Needed: Let's Design an Effective Oil Catch Can Setup I have played around with different oil catch can setups and have concluded for several reasons that the catch can itself should be placed inline on the hose running from the PCV to the intake manifold. Rather than running hose all over the place, I wanted to keep the implementation simple. It would also be effective and inexpensive. Below are the core components: Core Component: Husky Mini General Purpose Filter Model HDA704 (available at Home Depot...The part is also sold under the Coleman Powermate brand name). This will function as the oil catch can and it is important since it is sealed and functions as an air filter to catch oil vapor, etc. Core Component: One Way Check Valve (core specifically if your car is boosted to prevent the positive intake manifold pressure from hitting the PCV where boost could bleed into the crankcase or blow right into the crankcase if the PCV has failed). I have used a PCV based one way check valve with a viton diaphram in the past, but this new configuration will more than likely require the use of a one way brass check valve (likely with a viton diaphram as well). Other Components: This is where the suggestions are specifically needed. With the above items in mind, I came up with a rough configuration that would allow for the mini-filter to be installed in the same location as the stock hose running from the PCV to the intake manifold. Here is a PIC: The stock hose is on the top. The mini-filter is also there with some temporary brass fittings (minus the check valve) to get an idea of the space. The reason for the vertical pipe pieces is to raise the mini-filter up some so that it will fit in the limited space available. The issue with the above PIC however is that the part is now too long. What I was thinking about doing was removing the temporary brass fittings, screwing pipe into the female threads on the mini-filter, bending the pipe to conform and then having male threads on the other end of the pipes. On the PCV side, the pipe would need to have an adapter to screw into the threads so that it could have an adapter attached to connect to the threads where the PCV was connected (granted the PCV itself would need to be removed, but this would be okay if there is a one-way check valve installed inline...It would also give a little more clearance for the part and a secure attachment point...The PCV connection is an M14x1.5mm). On the intake manifold side, the male ends of the pipe coming from the mini-filter would have a one way check valve going to a barb fitting installed so that a hose could run from that barb fitting to the fitting on the intake manifold itself. Those are my thoughts at this point and I would like to solicit help and feedback to finalize. Last edited by blueroadster; 12-21-2007 at 07:15 PM.

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12-21-2007, 07:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Highrev1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,710 iTrader: 1 / 100%	Ah nice I see you used my suggestions

12-21-2007, 07:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Nathen* Pulver 4 President Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,722 Nathen iTrader: 1 / 100%	It was suggested by a shop teacher in high school to use steel wool inside instead of using a cotton or paper filter element inside. Here is a pic similar to the one my friend still runs on his hatch. I'm not sure on the demensions. Maybe someone with more knowledge can comment on the steel wool idea. It works very well the oil sticks to it like crazy. the steel wool used wasnt the really fine stuff it was very thick.

12-21-2007, 09:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
blueroadster Senior Member Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,573 iTrader: 7 / 100%	You do not want to use steel wool at all as a baffle in the catch can as the steel wool itself quickly rusts and frays. What was shown in the second PIC you posted, and is a good medium to use as a baffle, is a SS scrubbing pad that is used to wash dishes or scrub a grill surface.

12-21-2007, 09:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mr Bigs Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bklyn N.Y Age: 36 Posts: 185 iTrader: 0 / 0%	Here is a nice one I came across Perrin Performance - Oil Catch Can/Overflow Tank

12-21-2007, 10:35 PM	#12 (permalink)
*Nathen* Pulver 4 President Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,722 Nathen iTrader: 1 / 100%	Oh alright

12-22-2007, 12:46 AM	#13 (permalink)
vtecmike1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Simi Valley Age: 24 Posts: 1,231 Mike iTrader: 0 / 0%	are there no effective "store bought" catch cans for our si? i'm looking into getting one before i boost but i have to be honest i have no idea about them. or how to make one.

12-22-2007, 12:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
*Nathen* Pulver 4 President Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,722 Nathen iTrader: 1 / 100%	then just watch this thread. i have a general understanding and they do have good store bought ones. but they are usually large, expensive, and have to me mounted somewhere like the firewall or on a fender. I like blue's idea of making a compact one that doesnt have to be huge but still be functional. i'll be checking back here often to see if my baffle gets used in the final version

12-22-2007, 01:08 AM	#16 (permalink)
vtecmike1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Simi Valley Age: 24 Posts: 1,231 Mike iTrader: 0 / 0%	guess i got time to wait and watch since im not getting my kit till jan 20ish.. damn u comptech !! for making me wait for lol i got bored so i figured i'd write a story with smileys.

12-22-2007, 02:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
*Nathen* Pulver 4 President Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,722 Nathen iTrader: 1 / 100%	lol nice story. although i definatly feel bad about you have to wait so long. I dunno which is worse... looking at my kit everyday wishing it was on.... or not having the kit and wishing i had it.... i personally hate looking at mine everyday. like WTF put yourself on my car you pieces! lol.

06-12-2008, 12:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
enter801 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 30 Posts: 515 iTrader: 0 / 0%	So two things I'm wondering here to the elusive catch can setup. First, if the check valve has positive pressure on the seal side does pressure on the other side not come through for sure? Aren't there some sort of check valves that will seal the one side always and let pressure through the other side no matter what? Second, if the crankcase pressure metered air needs to be recirculated, why not route it to the intake behind the MAF sensor and just plug the hole on the intake manifold? Another question, does it matter if the valve cover vent has a breather filter on it or does that air need to be recirculated for sure as well. You could run a catch can on that as long as it is routed back to the intake as well, right? The guy who relocated his battery was doing that, I am wondering if he's even catching any oil from the valve cover.