ECM Technical Information and Tuning Capabilities

[hannson]

thanks to blueroadster who started us off on this journey.

[BLKonBLACK]

Any one know the voltge for full throttle on the 06 civic si? Im trying to tune my nitrous kit. Thanks

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by BLKonBLACK

Any one know the voltge for full throttle on the 06 civic si? Im trying to tune my nitrous kit. Thanks

Click here.

[BLKonBLACK]

Originally Posted by blueroadster

Click here.

Thank you u are the best. U solved my 6 month question. your the best thanks.

[Scott07LX]

I know this is a bit of a sideline to this topic, but do any of you know if the outside air temp sensor on an EX/Si is fed to this engine controller, or is it sent to the display cluster? I have an 07 LX, and really miss the outside temp indicator, and was wondering if it is just a matter of adding the sensor into the harness/plug at the computer, and then flashing the controller with the EX software or something like that? I do know that the display cluster is the same for the LX or EX, as I looked up the part numbers; just wonder where the difference is.

Why couldn't Honda make the cars with the same wiring harness, and just offer a kit and charge $ for it like they did for the recent Accord LX's?

[blueroadster]

I believe it is sent directly to the cluster but am not certain (I don't have my electrical manual, so I cannot confirm). I'd suggest maybe starting another thread so that the question gets a little more visability.

[smoker-21]

nice i finally found good info

[2RotorMotor]

Originally Posted by blueroadster

I believe it is sent directly to the cluster but am not certain (I don't have my electrical manual, so I cannot confirm). I'd suggest maybe starting another thread so that the question gets a little more visability.

the temp sensor is sent to the ecu. Temp will not show if ecu is removed or unplugged.

[Barry]

So maybe this is me being a noob and also being used to subaru's but is the civic ecu that hard to crack or are just not enough people working on it. I mean on a subaru these days you get yourself openecu and your done. I know older honda's have a free tuning program as well is there no coding for the ecu yet?

[blueroadster]

Hondata is the only one that knows and can change the code for you at this point.

On the stock ECM, Honda loads a .rwd file onto the ECM (you can do this with the Honda Interface Module and Honda Diagnostic Software application). The problem is that most of the code in the .rwd file cannot be interpreted due to the substitution cipher that Honda applied. You have two approaches at that point:

1) Crack the substitution cipher used on the .rwd file; or

2) Read the data directly from the flash memory.

The first option would be and has proven so far to be too time consuming. The second option will result in extracting the data from the flash memory where more portions of the code can be seen, but a significant portion still masked by the substitution cipher (the ECM of course can interpret this area and decode on the fly but that makes it more difficult for one to make code tweaks).

The hardware used in the ECM on the newer Civics also evolved where the 06, 07, and 08 models have different part numbers due to introducing more features over time (i.e., traction control, tire pressure monitoring system) as well as adding a more pure CAN support. These additional features not only resulted in a hardware but software changes as well.

Progress has however been made in utilizing a different ECM. The stock ECM has 1MB of flash memory and as mentioned uses a substitution cipher on the code. Even if cracked, there is not enough flash memory to add more code to support additional features. With that being said, the newer JDM Type R ECM has 1.6MB of flash memory and evidently does not have a substitution cipher built into decoding portions of the data on the flash memory. That ECM is also CAN based and runs DBW and a MAF.

[blueroadster]

A third option would be to use an OBD-II protocol sniffer to pick up the data in "pure form" as it is being transferred from the HIM/HDS and written to the ECM. Extract the data, learn the coding, manipulate the coding, replicate the communications and you are set. That is another option worth considering but honestly the JDM Type R appears to be the better target ECM to use considering it has .6MB more of flash memory to use and would be easier to program.

[darkrom]

Damn you ECU damn you to hell. I sure didn't buy a Honda to find out that it was un-tunable as of now

[MJ23FE]

So it looks like people are going to have to switch to a MAF if they want K-Pro, correct?

-Jalal

[darkrom]

Originally Posted by MJ23FE

So it looks like people are going to have to switch to a MAF if they want K-Pro, correct?

-Jalal

Somebody wasn't doing their reading/research!


The problem IS the MAF actually. You should look at one of the 1000000 threads on how we need Kpro and why we can't have it. Or you could bug Doug at Hondata.

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by MJ23FE

So it looks like people are going to have to switch to a MAF if they want K-Pro, correct?

-Jalal

Our cars already use a MAF. The introduction of the MAF sensor, CAN, and DBW is the reason why the existing K-Pro cannot work on our car and needs to be adapted.

The newer JDM Type R also uses a MAF, but from what I have heard it will not register 100% of the time like in the stock configuration where the MAF is constantly read regardless of whether or not the ECM is operating in open or closed loop.

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by darkrom

Damn you ECU damn you to hell. I sure didn't buy a Honda to find out that it was un-tunable as of now

The stock ECM is tunable. Hondata has already proven that they have the ability to modify the programming. This modification is specific to each model year because of changes introduced. I anticipate and would hope that Hondata would move to a common hardware and software architecture that would allow for them to use the same stuff regardless of the model year. The JDM Type R ECM is appealing in this area as it could work on all models to date and has a lot more space in the flash memory for Hondata to add more features.

[darkrom]

Originally Posted by blueroadster

The stock ECM is tunable. Hondata has already proven that they have the ability to modify the programming. This modification is specific to each model year because of changes introduced. I anticipate and would hope that Hondata would move to a common hardware and software architecture that would allow for them to use the same stuff regardless of the model year. The JDM Type R ECM is appealing in this area as it could work on all models to date and has a lot more space in the flash memory for Hondata to add more features.

So why can't we put the type R ecm in our car and then tune the piss out of it? What kind of features could Hondata add?

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by darkrom

Somebody wasn't doing their reading/research!


The problem IS the MAF actually. You should look at one of the 1000000 threads on how we need Kpro and why we can't have it. Or you could bug Doug at Hondata.

Please do not do that. The more that people bug him, the less time that they will have to dedicate towards finishing things. Honestly, I have yet to contact anyone from Hondata regarding the changes being made to my car and that is for a reason. I'd rather Hondata progress forward as much as possible with an engine management solution for our cars and I will contact them when the time is right.

[jsb03f]

regarding the CAN values for 06-08 civics. Are the ECM's interchangeable?

[blueroadster]

Originally Posted by darkrom

So why can't we put the type R ecm in our car and then tune the piss out of it? What kind of features could Hondata add?

The software loaded into the flash memory on the Type R ECM is not the same that needed to drive everything on our car. The software would need to be modified for a baseline. At that point, additional features could be added or adapted.