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Old 10-31-2007, 11:49 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueroadster
^^^True, but as I am sure that you are probably aware, the e-manage is not a complete tuning solution. It does not provide the ability to modify the timing.

I'm really more interested in a replacement engine management unit that is programmable rather than a piggy-back solution. I know that that is asking for a lot and will probably not be available for quite some time.


Eric,

I talked to Phil at Element Tuning a while ago and he said that he would be willing to hardwire a HydraEMS into my Si. If he is close to you stop in and get a feel if it would be possible and the costs associated with it.


Adam
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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ECM connectors

Hi blueroadster,

Do you know where I can purchase those Tyco connectors which was mentioned in your posting? Please provide links or contact if possible.

Many thanks!


Regards,
Jameson
Singapore


================================================== =
The Tyco part numbers are as follows (the specific items can be located on their site via a part number search with click through links to distributors):

Connector A (White) 44 Position Plug Assembly (Female): 1717138-6
Connector A (White) 44 Position Wire Cover: 1827108-1
Connector B (Grey) 44 Position Plug Assembly (Female): 1717138-5
Connector B (Grey) 44 Position Wire Cover: 1827109-1
Connector C (Green) 44 Position Plug Assembly (Female): 1717138-4
Connector C (Green) 44 Position Wire Cover: 1674419-2
Cavity Plug: 1612108-4
Wire Cover V Type: 1746089-1
132 Position Cap Assembly (Male) (Part of the ECM assembly): 1717139-1
44 Position Wire Cover Type-IV: 1903287-1
================================================== ==
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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http://ecommas.tycoelectronics.com/c...entory_form.do

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We are working on a programmable system for the Civic.1) It is our TOP priority. We have purchased two Civics for this reason.More calls however, cannot make the development proceed at a faster rate, so please be patient.
Dinner meet at my Resturant

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Old 11-14-2007, 09:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Thanks Highrev!

I have done so but couldn't locate any distributor carrying these items. Any other sources? Or do you have links to the sales person?

Thanks.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:01 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by blueroadster View Post
^^^True, but as I am sure that you are probably aware, the e-manage is not a complete tuning solution. It does not provide the ability to modify the timing.

I'm really more interested in a replacement engine management unit that is programmable rather than a piggy-back solution. I know that that is asking for a lot and will probably not be available for quite some time.
hi blueroadster, i was under the impression that both Unichip and eManage Ultimate provide the ability to modify the timing... hmm.. may i know if you've got confirmation otherwise? this is good info.

cheers
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:24 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Great info!
Just what I was looking for.
I'm about to attempt to piggy back a MOTEC M400 using Boomslang Harness
and this has been great help!

Was wondering if you also by any chance would have the pin out diagram of the DBW Throttle and DBW Pedal Box?
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Old 12-23-2007, 02:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lukits01 View Post
Great info!
Just what I was looking for.
I'm about to attempt to piggy back a MOTEC M400 using Boomslang Harness
and this has been great help!

Was wondering if you also by any chance would have the pin out diagram of the DBW Throttle and DBW Pedal Box?
You can purchase the greddy harness cheaper. Look at procivic.com. Hope this can save you some extra cash.
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Old 12-24-2007, 11:40 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by blueroadster View Post
Background:

Communications with the vehicle's onboard systems can be established when the HDS is used with an approved hardware device (ex., HIM or GNA600). Once communications have been established with the vehicle, the HDS can report and datalog the following real time data:

ENGINE SPEED
VSS
ECT SENSOR 1
ECT SENSOR 2
IAT SENSOR 2
MAP SENSOR
MAF SENSOR
CLV
TP SENSOR
REL TP SENSOR
APP SENSOR
APP SENSOR A
APP SENSOR B
TARGET TH VLV
IDLE TARGET TH
TP SENSOR A
TP SENSOR B
MOTOR DUTY
CRUS REQ TH
TACH RELAY
THROTTLE ACTUATOR SUPPLY VOLTAGE
AF SENSOR
AF LAMBDA
AF FB (ST FUEL TRIM)
AF FB AVE (LT FUEL TRIM)
FSS
H02S (AF) S1 HEATER
IDLING
FUEL CUT
FUEL CUT DECEL
BATTERY
IG1 LEVEL
ELD
ALTERNATOR
ALT CTRL
GEAR POSITION
C SHAFT SPD
REVERSE LOCK SOL
BRAKE SWITCH
A/C SWITCH
A/C PRESSURE SENSOR
A/C CLUTCH
SCS
OIL PRESSURE SWITCH
VTEC PRES SW
VTEC SOL
SELENOID RETURN SIGNAL
F INJECTOR
SPARK ADVANCE
VTC STATUS
CMP CTRL
CMP CTRL CMD
VTC SOL DUTY
KNOCK RETARD
KNOCK SENSOR
KNOCK CTRL
FUEL LEVEL (AVERAGE)
FUEL LEVEL
EVAP CVS VALUE
RE CVS VALUE
MIL
MIL STATUS
MIL DIST
MAIN RELAY (FP)
FAN HIGH CTRL
FAN LOW CTRL
ENGINE OIL LIFE
IDLE LEARN
CKP PULSER F/B LEARN
MAX ENG SPD
OVER ENF TM
START ECT
START IAT
CAT MONITOR CONDITION B1
MISFIRE
MISFIRED CYL
CYL1 MISFIRE_B
CYL1 MISFIRE
CYL2 MISFIRE_B
CYL2 MISFIRE
CYL3 MISFIRE_B
CYL3 MISFIRE
CYL4 MISFIRE_B
CYL4 MISFIRE
MISFIRE CYCLE
SHIFT/CLUTCH SW
MISFIRE CYCLE_B
CMP A NO PULSE
CMP B NO PULSE
CKP NO PULSE
CMP A NOISE
CMP B NOISE
CKP NOISE
CRUISE BRAKE SW
CRUISE MASTER (MAIN) SW
CRUISE SET SW
CRUISE RESUME SW
CRUISE CANCEL SW
CRUISE INDICATOR
.
If we knew the channel then we could use a scangaugeII to view the 02 sensors. Great way to keep track of what a mod does and how it effects the a/f ratios.

ScanGaugeII - Add-A-Gauge

http://www.scangauge.com/support/pdfs/XGAUGE.pdf
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:55 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Hello Blueroadster and Hirev1, much appreciation for your efforts thus far.

Although I am new to imports I have some advice for you. If you plan on designing a standalone that will have control or access to engine inputs such as, injector pulsewidth, fan on/off?, timing, VTEC? etc... You must remember that unless you have the actual code (software for the ECM) you will not know which parameters are reliant on some 'bullshit' parameters that will make your life hell.

What I'm trying to say is, because it is such an electronic engine, finding out if opening your sunroof will change the timing of the motor will be very important. Now I'm not saying that is the case, but you will see that honda ECMs have hundreds of input parameters. If you cannot simulate any of these parameters OR retain them as inputs in your new ECM standalone; you will run into a lot of problems. I would like to help you guys with this project.

- Dan
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DBFIU View Post
Hello Blueroadster and Hirev1, much appreciation for your efforts thus far.

Although I am new to imports I have some advice for you. If you plan on designing a standalone that will have control or access to engine inputs such as, injector pulsewidth, fan on/off?, timing, VTEC? etc... You must remember that unless you have the actual code (software for the ECM) you will not know which parameters are reliant on some 'bullshit' parameters that will make your life hell.

What I'm trying to say is, because it is such an electronic engine, finding out if opening your sunroof will change the timing of the motor will be very important. Now I'm not saying that is the case, but you will see that honda ECMs have hundreds of input parameters. If you cannot simulate any of these parameters OR retain them as inputs in your new ECM standalone; you will run into a lot of problems. I would like to help you guys with this project.

- Dan
Not to be an ass, but I'm sure they are aware of this.
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:49 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Is there a concrete solution whether piggyback or standalone? Does Hondata have anything planned for this car? I'm not sure that's why I'm asking. Because custom making the hardware and software to support this engine would be very hard.

How about Megasquirt?


- Dan
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:22 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ryker View Post
If we knew the channel then we could use a scangaugeII to view the 02 sensors. Great way to keep track of what a mod does and how it effects the a/f ratios.

ScanGaugeII - Add-A-Gauge

http://www.scangauge.com/support/pdfs/XGAUGE.pdf
ScanGauge is only able to report OBD generic and not OBD extended data so much of what you would want to see would not be reported from that device.
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:45 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DBFIU View Post
Hello Blueroadster and Hirev1, much appreciation for your efforts thus far.

Although I am new to imports I have some advice for you. If you plan on designing a standalone that will have control or access to engine inputs such as, injector pulsewidth, fan on/off?, timing, VTEC? etc... You must remember that unless you have the actual code (software for the ECM) you will not know which parameters are reliant on some 'bullshit' parameters that will make your life hell.

What I'm trying to say is, because it is such an electronic engine, finding out if opening your sunroof will change the timing of the motor will be very important. Now I'm not saying that is the case, but you will see that honda ECMs have hundreds of input parameters. If you cannot simulate any of these parameters OR retain them as inputs in your new ECM standalone; you will run into a lot of problems. I would like to help you guys with this project.

- Dan
I don't have time to build a standalone. The intent of this thread was to put our minds together and figure out as much as possible to help the tuning community offer a sound programmable solution.

Anyone that has the Honda Diagnostic Software (HDS) already has the acutual source code for all OBD Honda and Acura vehicles. There are seperate files for the various years/makes/models. Each file is saved with a .rwd extension, is less than 1 MB in size and uses a substitution cipher on the payload programming portion. When a .rwd file is written to an ECM, it is done so through the use of a Honda Interface Module (HIM) or other Honda approved pass through device. The HIM knows the substitution cipher used on the .rwd files and writes the cleartext data directly to the ECM.

If you don't want to waste the time trying to figure out the substitution cipher used, then you would need to read the data currently stored on the ECM in flash memory. That way, you could extract the 1 MB of data in pure form. I already posted a link earlier regarding the microprocessor used in the ECM. There is technical article in that link that details how to read/write data to the flash memory on or off board.

Once you get the data, the next hurdle is trying to decipher each value. Hondata clearly understands this part as they can change specific values as per their reflash offering. If you have deciphered many of the values, you would then need to understand the programming dependencies. For example, I have heard that the rev limit value is stored in multiple locations in the code. You must change all stored values for the rev limit in order for the change to take effect.

With that being said, this isn't something one could figure out in their garage over the weekend. Even if I completely understood how to manipulate the code in the ECM, I would still not want to develop a product. Why, because then I would have to design a software user interface and a hardware device to then sell to the general public. Hondata, AEM, Haltec, etc. have invested years into their products and I would not want to attempt to even try to compete with what they have done. What I would rather do is to share information that would hopefully help the tuning world develop something for us sooner.
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:50 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DBFIU View Post
Is there a concrete solution whether piggyback or standalone? Does Hondata have anything planned for this car? I'm not sure that's why I'm asking. Because custom making the hardware and software to support this engine would be very hard.

How about Megasquirt?


- Dan
Several options are in the works. Both Hondata and AEM have owned 2006 Civic Si models for the last couple of years. A haltec unit is also in the works and will be installed on a member's car in the near future for testing. You may want to search the site for more details or look around as the programming question tends to come up quite a bit.

When a programmable unit is made available, it will likely ditch the MAF.

Megasquirt does not work on the 2006+ Civic unless you want to ditch a lot of creature comforts (same is true for many other standalones).
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:48 PM   #35 (permalink)
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DetachmentBravo (also a member here) posted this a while back on the pgmfi forum when we were working together...Unfortunately, no reply was received:

Quote:
About the 2006 model year ECUs:

A backdoor is NOT possible. Why you might ask? Well before I tackled the ungodly mess that Teradyne calls a Diagnostic System I tried to get an idea of the hardware I was dealing with. Remember I chose to be a Computer Engineer instead of a Computer Scientist, I like working with micro controllers. Well guess what, the ECUs in the FG1 and FG2 Civics are now sealed shut with an epoxy with similar characteristics to JB Weld. I broke my favorite screwdriver trying to pry the two halves apart. The strength of the epoxy is actually greater than that of the aluminum the case is made out of. What progress I did make in trying to remove the cover was mostly from deforming the metal. I stopped short of cutting the ECU open with an abrasion wheel because I would still like to drive my car when all this is done.

Time to break down the front door:

With the back door securely barricaded I think it is high time we kicked in the front door. Being a Free Software Foundation zealot (I should show you all my pictures of me protesting the launch of Vista) I am more than willing to put in the time and effort necessary to free ourselves of corporate software.

I am not focusing on the inner workings of HIM or of any other interface device because we already have a universal data transmission protocol in J2534. Additionally, my research so far has uncovered that the HIM is actually a J2534 compliant device and J2534 API dlls are included in the HDS install. My goal is to reverse engineer Honda's proprietary system for distributing ECU firmware updates. As some have already discovered, this is done through the .rwd file type. Reverse engineering these files will allow us instant access to firmware for all Honda ECUs. It will also allow us to use Honda's software to help us speed up the development process. If we can create our own .rwd files, then we can use the existing libraries and hardware to transfer these changes to the ECU.

How the .rwd system works:

Honda distributes their firmware in what they call "Program File Databases". Each database contains several master database files that contain listings of each "Program File" (a .rwd file) and information concerning its intended application. This includes car model, year, engine, transmission, ECU revision, etc. To be honest I have spent very little time studying the master database files so far. Once I fully crack the .rwd format I will spend more time looking at them.

The .rwd headers:

There are two types of .rwd files handled by the software. One appears to be a legacy version and the other a more recent version. I have only focused on the more recent version for now.

As of this week I have successfully identified the format of most of the .rwd file headers for the more recent version. It is as follows:


Code:
All newer .rwd begin with the same three byte magic number:

0x5A, 0x0D, 0x0A

Following these three bytes are exactly 7 structures of the following format:

Byte 0: Number of structure members
Byte 1: Size of first member
Byte 2,x: Data of first member
Byte x+1: Size of second member
Byte (x+1),y: Data of second member
...etc.

Each of the 7 structures carries a specific set of data. I am not sure as to the exact contents of each at this time as not all of them are referenced by the software but these are my best guesses:

Structure 1: 1 member of null length (reserved or not used at this time)
Structure 2: 1 member of length 0x04 (unknown)
Structure 3: 1 member of length 0x01 (unknown)
Structure 4: multiple members of length 0x10 (ProgramIDs *char)
Structure 5: multiple members of length 0x06 (SystemIDs int)
Structure 6: 1 member of length 0x03 (RevisionID? *char)
Structure 7: null

There are always the same number of ProgramIDs and SystemIDs. They are the only two values I have seen referenced by the software so far and are used to ensure that the proper Program File has been selected.


This is where my knowledge of the .rwd format comes to an end. In the headers there are two more values that are common to all files of the newer type but I have not yet identified their use. The two vales are both QUADWORDS that begin with 0x8000. The first QUADWORD is usually 0x8000000F but I have also seen 0x80000007. The second QUADWORD is different for every file but always begins with 0x8000. An example value is 0x80006E4E. There is a possibility that these are encryption keys or file offsets. Which brings me to my final point.

Encrypted or not encrypted:

When I first began working on these files I immediately dismissed the claims that these files were encrypted in any way. Having dabbled in cryptography and read several books on the subject I knew that files were not encrypted in a modern form of cryptography because too many patterns were easily visible. However, the most recent batch of code I have looked at has made me changed my mind. I'm still working on exactly what it does, but it appears to take data from the file heap and process it in a very simple way. The code contains a large number of compiler optimizations and advanced opcodes that I have to look up so it could take some time to completely decipher, but there is the possibility that the .BIN is encrypted with a basic substitution cypher (like a Cesarean shift).

More to come. Any input is greatly appreciated.
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:13 PM   #36 (permalink)
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^lol at scrambling my brain...
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:42 PM   #37 (permalink)
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^lol at scrambling my brain...
Maybe something like this would help (.rwd file snip) :

Z
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Last edited by blueroadster; 02-11-2008 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:30 PM   #38 (permalink)
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